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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:02 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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0.15 goals per inside 50
About half where we need to be (0.27)
Last week was 0.14

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:07 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Hawthorn off the back of a three year rebuild is better than us off the back of a 10 year 66 game reset.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:08 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Effes wrote:
Those cauliflower go out and recruit quality/for need

D'Ambrosio
Battle
Barrass

Where was our plan to add pace and skill and a second tall defender?

exactly.

when Hawks got two key defenders in the trade period and we didn’t get any in the trade i thought “what is wrong with this club?”. the post-Jones/Weiters hole is so glaringly, floweringly, obviously in need of a fix. i know KPD don’t grow on trees but Hawks can find them. (i think Haynes came later after trade period right, and he’s a gamble that i hope pays off but a gamble nonetheless).


the other glaring hole on our list is a gun small forward who can do all the things: defensive, agressive, mercurial and kick inspirational goals whilst providing our game plan with more the one dimension up forward. we missed the boat targeting Papley (even if he is a PITA he’d turn our forward line around overnight, Fog could just to tackling, Fantasia and Cotrell dropping back to defence and creative forward transition).

we eschewed other high end small forwards chasing a long shot in Papley. we dumped jack, fair enough i guess given his injury runs and age. then we earmarked Owies, easily our best mid/small forward in the last four or more seasons for a trade to west coast for their pick 3, please don’t tell me that wasn’t pre-planned and the reason Owies never got to renew his contract unless you know that for a fact bc if it looks like a duck and walked like a duck it’s a duck. Life line to Fantasia and Evens hasn’t delivered much, though Fantasia seemed to be hitting some form, inviting of course our injury curse a visitation to his locker.

if we don’t finish top four this year, which looks like a pipe dream right now but things can change a lot across a season, then we maybe aren’t that destination club we once were attracting Cerra, Williams, Saad, Jack, Hewett, am i missing a player with one or more elite skills who traded to CFC in the last five years?

the thing to me is we seem to have lost that flair we were showing when we emeredge out of the bottom four a few years ago. the obsession with Process that middle level managers often have and i suspect Voss and his coaches have, often comes at the cost of Product.

was reminded in a short on YT today of when Steve Jobs said, ‘at IBM they had the best process managers in the industry while at Apple (in the SJ eras) we’ve always preferred to have some of the best product people in the industry’. he went on to claim that exceptional product people are often much more of a PITA to manage, you put up with it because end of the day they can deliver a better product, whatever the management processes look like. (at this point i’ll say that at the other extreme Fev was all product and no process, but extremely poorly managed resulting in his overblown egotism and bad boy behaviours costing us a potential flag, i blame Pagan for that, did same poor job managing Wayne Carey’s ego ).

i wonder how much of that is about neurotypical vs neurodivergent minds? i wonder if there’s a bit too much PWC/Accenture/Boston consulting Process oriented management going on at CFC these days given Luke Sawyers and that dude from Geelong? would know. just a hunch.

anyhow there’s players who used to have dare and flair in our ones who seem to be role players now just trying not to FU or get caught out rather than blitzing every other game when a favorable match up allows them to show their talent. that’s down to coaching and trying to fix the poor structures, the half broken defensive system which must drive Weiters mad at times.


Last edited by diesel95 on Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I think my standards have dropped so much I'm one of those at a minimum, happy we got effort. Much better than last week at least.

But my gosh the Hawks have gone past us ridiculously quickly. The difference in class, field use, & just general list planning was immense tonight. Really we just hung in their on heart alone.

Nice to see a better effort from Motlop. Thought Campo was a little unlucky to get subbed off, would have gone Kemp or Charlie myself.

Doc looks like a batsman who's reached the bit where his reflexes are starting to fail him. That dropped mark was gutting.

flower that mackenzie can play a bit.

They are streets ahead of us

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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AGRO wrote:
Hawthorn off the back of a three year rebuild is better than us off the back of a 10 year 66 game reset.


:lol:


It was July 2023 when we beat them by 60 points at the MCG after keeping them goalless till Half Time. Gee the wheel has turned.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:18 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
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Why Carlton didn’t offer Nathan Cooper a contract and instead have a spot to Haynes is beyond me
Seeing Haynes McGovern and Young feebly try and help Weitering is comedy hour
What a dumb club


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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diesel95 wrote:
Effes wrote:
Those cauliflower go out and recruit quality/for need

D'Ambrosio
Battle
Barrass

........ the post-Jones/Weiters hole is so glaringly, floweringly, obviously in need of a fix........

.......


We haven't even tried fixing it ..... They haven't even acknowledged it FFS.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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keogh wrote:
Why Carlton didn’t offer Nathan Cooper a contract and instead have a spot to Haynes is beyond me
Seeing Haynes McGovern and Young feebly try and help Weitering is comedy hour
What a dumb club


No we went for a small and then another small ...... Fk!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
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jezzarules wrote:
0.15 goals per inside 50
About half where we need to be (0.27)
Last week was 0.14



our weakest part of the field has always been our forward line, in spite of the elite talents in Charlie and Harry (and TDK when he was playing forward more). basically since Betts retired and even then he lacked the support of elite KPFs. for half a season and then a quarter of a season the year before that it was good enough. could crumple into a heap this season or mids and HF flanks learn how to transition in the modern game and we give Charlie, Harry and Kemp/JSOS enough quality looks at the ball. And we find two or three smalls with the form to crumble and goal as well as apply pressure, which they are already doing quite well.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:25 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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We now need to win the next 2. Can’t afford to drop either.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:34 pm 
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Robert Walls
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SurreyBlue wrote:
We now need to win the next 2. Can’t afford to drop either.


Dogs and pies...?
What are you smoking?

I won't be surprised if the next coach search has already started by round 4.

But Brad Lloyd will be keeping his head down


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:36 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
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Voss is officially “under the pump” as far as media will be concerned now. good, let’s see if he’s got the right stuff or he’s one of those great players who just for whatever reason isn’t as revolutionary and determined with his footy IQ off the field as he was on the field. the players often say Voss is an inspirational communicator, that they’d walk through a wall for him after a rev up.

so maybe it’s just weak game day strategy and tactics and on field talent that is betraying his “belief and want” as he puts it? but i know i’ve seen a hell of a lot better from everyone on this list that what they produced at the back end of last year and the start of this season… and not just older players like Doc who still has speed but lacks polish now, talking all of the players. Exceptions are TDK, Cripps, Hewitt, maybe Cerra allowing for injury. not many others, Harry when he came good. Weiters seems back in elite form after slight drop off in 2023. Saad is (mostly) consistent but has less “moments” lately, maybe. that leaves a lot of holes in our transition player list, as opposed to stoppages. and transition, we’ll that’s the name of the AFL game in 2024/25 so we’d better wake up to that pretty soon.


Last edited by diesel95 on Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
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Please Battle is only average. Barass and Houston would have helped us.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Yes Hawthorn have drafted and traded well.

But they have a game plan that is easy to see, you'd imagine easy to understand, and electrifying confidence

The number of times they run the ball of a D50 turnover, like a surfer always just on the lip of the wave about to crash but holding on for the reward, is not a fluke.

They run as fast at the end as at the beginning.

We are slow, dour, contested ball steamshovels. And we either have no exit strategy from D50, no sustained forward pressure, and no noticeable forward entry patterns.

The closest thing to a strategy is a clean centre break and deep F50 entry.

We are not well coached.

I loved Voss the player. I believed in Voss the motivator. His tactical nous is one of the weakest in the league and he has a game plan that simply can't adapt when it's not on our terms.

TDK was really good tonight, but Meek was still able to block his run, particularly in the 2nd quarter (often illegally, but whatever) and break even. Then we're done.

We rely on winning 50/50 contests

The hawks get the ball away from 50/50 contests. So you rely on mistakes.

They don't make many.

When was the last time you saw a Hawks side with anything other than elite foot skills? Over 20 years ago I'd reckon.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 10:51 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Bluey44 wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
We now need to win the next 2. Can’t afford to drop either.


Dogs and pies...?
What are you smoking?

I won't be surprised if the next coach search has already started by round 4.

But Brad Lloyd will be keeping his head down


I said I’ll give the team a month and I’m sticking to my word. 0-4 however, will not be a good place to be.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 11:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
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I'm just glad it's over and I can get on with the rest of the weekend

Voss needs to bring in curnow for the dogs, can't have him not playing 3 weeks in a row....

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 11:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bluehammer wrote:
Yes Hawthorn have drafted and traded well.

But they have a game plan that is easy to see, you'd imagine easy to understand, and electrifying confidence

The number of times they run the ball of a D50 turnover, like a surfer always just on the lip of the wave about to crash but holding on for the reward, is not a fluke.

They run as fast at the end as at the beginning.

We are slow, dour, contested ball steamshovels. And we either have no exit strategy from D50, no sustained forward pressure, and no noticeable forward entry patterns.

The closest thing to a strategy is a clean centre break and deep F50 entry.

We are not well coached.

I loved Voss the player. I believed in Voss the motivator. His tactical nous is one of the weakest in the league and he has a game plan that simply can't adapt when it's not on our terms.

TDK was really good tonight, but Meek was still able to block his run, particularly in the 2nd quarter (often illegally, but whatever) and break even. Then we're done.

We rely on winning 50/50 contests

The hawks get the ball away from 50/50 contests. So you rely on mistakes.

They don't make many.

When was the last time you saw a Hawks side with anything other than elite foot skills? Over 20 years ago I'd reckon.
That's the thing, their new recruits assimilate borg like

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 11:06 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Yeah/Nah......most of the posters, I'm tipping, were not there tonight and, as usual, give their critique from the armchair. If you were there, as most of you would not have been as you are armchairers, you would have seen how much we cracked in. First bounce- mystery free to Hawthorn. Chol goal. No one at the ground knew what that was for. TDK kicks the next and mystery free to them. That's 12 points. Second quarter both TDK and SOS miss sodas. 3rd quarter two goal reviews for SOS and Jesse. All those things go our ways and we win. Yeah, 4th quarter we were not good but , hey, take some good.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 11:08 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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eric pascoe wrote:
Yeah/Nah......most of the posters, I'm tipping, were not there tonight and, as usual, give their critique from the armchair. If you were there, as most of you would not have been as you are armchairers, you would have seen how much we cracked in. First bounce- mystery free to Hawthorn. Chol goal. No one at the ground knew what that was for. TDK kicks the next and mystery free to them. That's 12 points. Second quarter both TDK and SOS miss sodas. 3rd quarter two goal reviews for SOS and Jesse. All those things go our ways and we win. Yeah, 4th quarter we were not good but , hey, take some good.


Agree.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2025 11:08 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Positives:
TdK (just wow), Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, Ollie and was that Cottrell's best game?
Motlop and Docherty find some touch. Young standing up even though he started a little off, although a push is a push UMPIRES!
Defensive structure and pressure around the ball was good.

Negatives:
I’m sorry but what was that display from the UMPIRES. Not only were Hollywood allowed freedom to man handle our players but we were penalised for looking at them. Just disgraceful.
I just can’t keep calling this bloke out (you all know who it is) but he just continuously shirks contact.
I’d like to know why Cerra was moved out of the centre?


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