i think the talk was of bringing it back. dunno why though

mebbe just to watch eddie maguire's head explode

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my last one was rubbish

What's dumb is the stupid shit people will come up with to push an agenda.
De Koning didn't suffer a stress injury. He wasn't "run into the ground". He copped an impact injury. It couldn't have occurred in the first minute of the first game. The only way to prevent contact injuries is to rest everyone every week. Sam Durdin suffered a calf injury in his first game in 2 years. We must have run him into the ground as well.

We're second on the ladder. Get over it.
I couldn't give a rats arse what the Swans do or what Collingwood do. Different lists, different game plans, different players.
10-1 with 1 ruck. Shit with 2. They're the only stats that matter.

It's pathetic that we have supporters delighting in injuries or losses so they can run to TC to push their disjointed agendas.
Hurry up and win the flag so we can all have a rest from this crap for a few months.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

We may win the flag but the rest is absurdly optimistic…

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Why did the club lodge an official complaint to the AFL over the tactics employed for TDK on Sunday to deliberately cause injury in the ruck contest.
Suggest you go do a bit of research


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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

That should be our banner this week.



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#DonTheStash

TdK was managed after one game back from the bye. He has been bandaged up since.
SDurdin was named into the side, then removed only to be recalled. Anyone that watched him from the minute he walked on the ground knew he was carrying a shoulder and leg injury.
Walsh has been struggling for 2 weeks and so has Acres and Weitering.
If we could see this from the outside do you think Clarkson wasn’t aware?

Facts are, we go into the game with one fit KP back vs 3 possible big men forward. End result Kennedy plays on 200cm forward and Nigel is in affective.TdK is mauled by the opposition and we have no backup.

That is not good coaching / player management, especially when you have a fit Pittonet and Young in the VFL. It’s actually poor nd it’s a credit to the boys on the ground that we won the game and not the coaches!!

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/86BfXW ... tid=oFDknk

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I prefer one ruck for our set up.
However, I do understand that the coaching panel are not fully resolved on this because most of the time when we’ve played two rucks, there have been other problems as well - either with personnel missing or our lack of intensity. And I’m not 100% convinced that the lack of intensity is related to the two rucks as distinct from mindset. Although the correlation is compelling…
I think that Voss would love to see us play at our ball breaking best intensity with two rucks to properly assess its value for what will be a very intense finals campaign.
Unfortunately for him, we’re not going to get that chance with TDK out at least until finals.
Of course, it may be a blessing in disguise if the one ruck setup is indeed the best option or even if it forces us to make a call and stick with it rather than oscillate right up until finals, potentially giving up a couple of games along the way which we can’t afford.


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Irrelevant. You said the club has "just run our 3rd most influential player into the ground".
It was an impact injury. Our club is not responsible. Your own link states it was caused by an opposition player and questionable tactics. The clubs only responsibility is they've given Tom the opportunity to flourish so other clubs are looking to curb his influence.
When you have to tell a blatant lie in an attempt to prove your point, why does that tell you about your point?

It's @#$%&! pathetic that we have supporters sitting around for weeks waiting for the team to lose or players to get injured so they can delight in using it to push their agenda. I couldn't give a rats arse whether we play 1 ruck or 2. I just want us to win. Whatever structure does that, I'm happy with. At the moment it's one ruck. Later in the season it may be 2.
Take a break. You clearly need it.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

well, this thread is everything i hoped it would be.

I am the exact opposite of what you just typed.
Mine concerns have and always will be if you run with one ruck you run the risk of them not only being targeted like the X man did against TDK you also run the risk of back up ruck like Harry and Cripps also being in the exact same scenario.
I don't want to see anyone on the sidelines.
So if anyone should be taking a break it is your self for trying to put words into my mouth.
TDK was copping a pounding leading up to this game because he was shouldering all the ruck duties and the one ruck policy crucified him.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

the problem isn't any of that. the problem is the list. like gawn and grundy, our two rucks are ineffectual if they're not playing on the ball. tdk does a little more than pittonet, but he's not a forward - and with H and charles, we don't need another tall marking forward, so our F50 balance is too slow, not enough pressure and nowhere near the turnover we create when we have 2 key forwards.


either trade pittonet for a more versatile back up ruck (one that could go back would be ideal) or we put harry into the ruck for 20% game time.

Mad to trade either of them now. It’s not like we’re trying to manage Kreuzer, Warnock, Jacobs & Hampson.

We need to get Lewis Young back up to snuff.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

agreed ... young would fix everything, if he could play.

he has the sure footedness of bambi when he's out there. it's like his knees have no ligaments. or he's drunk.

What's that?

bondiblue free thread?

Just got back from the snow.

I'm devastated about TDK's injury. I'm feeling a bit down TBH.

Having said that, I'm sure Pitto will do a great job. I'll post a link to Nathan Buckley's opinion on Pitto. ie he's not as bad as you think.

I am very hopeful TDK will return for Finals, when 2 rucks will be a necessity than an option.

We hardly use the sub for tactical reasons. Can hide Pitto there as a break glass insurance just for you braithy. Just incase there's some old timers who would use dirty tactics to maim our players.

Do you believe there's Clarko's in the world who may want to play unsociable foorty? Do you remember when he coined that phrase last decade? Or is that not modern footy? He finished coaching his "Unsociable Hawks" in 2021.

Is 2021 still counted as modern day football?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Mark Twain famously popularized the saying, “There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

He referred to the idea that statistics can have persuasive power, even when used inappropriately.

Somehow, an educated guess tells me Vossy and the MC wouldn't be looking at our team with such simplicity.

AFL is a complex game and a simple game; depends on how you want to present it.

There's more to consider than the win loss when there's 23 variables (players), their mood, biorhythms, injury, form, plus weather, size of ground, team form (cohesion), fitness and home crowd, opposition, opponent to name a few.....dirty opposition coaches, media scrutiny, umpire decisions....can go on and on.... on a week to week basis.

Like the old saying goes, "If we could bottle form, we would"

I wouldn't say that we won all those games because of TDK. Would you?
No way you would have thought TDK's purple patch was going to last through to the Grand Final. Nothing stays the same. He didnt have a ruck opponent against Geelong, and against Xerri and Briggs he was fighting in a different weight division.

Just like I wouldn't say we lost the game against Adelaide because of 2 rucks, after Pittonet went off the ground with 5 minutes left in the game, and we were 16 points up, leaving TDK as the sole ruck to kill off the game.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Pittonet is undefeated as sole ruck this season.

Tom isn’t.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/07/24/the-stat-that-has-produced-17-of-the-last-18-premiers-and-the-three-teams/


it's interesting how our turnover profile greatly diminishes when pittonet & tdk play together

No.

But in context I was responding to Surrey who said "The problem has been that going in to a game with one ruck this year hurts us forward of the centre with Harry rucking.". Charlie is leading the Coleman and Harry is 4th. We're the second highest scoring team in the AFL. That doesn't look like our forward line is struggling to me.

I'm not averse to playing Pitto but when we are using one ruck, TDK is currently the better option IMO.
Utilising 2 rucks in a game as ruckmen isn't the problem for me. The management of the second ruck when he's not on ball is my issue.
Our forward line doesn't function well when TDK or Pitto is resting there IMO. Additionally we seem to run out of legs if we soak up a bench position with a resting ruckman and we suffer defensively. We've conceded 100 points 5 times this year. 4 of those games we played 2 rucks.
We have to find a different solution because I don't believe the win/loss record with 2 rucks plus 2 tall forwards is coincidental. It was a pattern last year as well.

The only other solution I can currently see is using TDK in a Blicavs type role where he plays as a rotating mid offering short term relief in the ruck. He's shown that he has good endurance and he can definitely win a clearance. Perhaps rotate him, Cripps and Kennedy mid/forward with TDK also rucking 10 minutes per quarter. There's possible solutions out there which brighter minds than ours will figure out but I don't believe the 2 ruck plus Harry/Charlie will currently work for us often enough.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

you haven’t controlled the data for inclusions. when it was just one ruck, esp when that one ruck was TDK we had a tonne of players returning after long spells out with injuries. which meant bunnies and project players and draftees leaving the team. three or four weak links in a team can be exploited by a decent oppo coaching strategy and tactics. they say the skill of the bottom third are what wins you finals/GF. there’s something in that.

find some way to add up first pick 18 players and then rate each win and lose for personnel. that’s one way you could control for that. i’m still learning stats, i’m not sure the way to make sure your control method is on target.

i accept the points you make about legs and tactical sub and medical sub being improved with one ruck. but i think the counter arguments we have heard a million times have some validity too.

that’s why i think it comes down to oppo match ups and game styles to some extent.

i wish we picked up Grundy or English for pitto end of 2023 and put TDK at CHB for non-rucking role and second ruck when main ruck is off the ground or resting on a wing or something.

TDK still has to grow the legs to be FT Ruckman IMHO for a whole season. he’s no Allen or Madden or Porter just yet. Pitto is a great VFL ruck who can play AFL when required. doesn’t do enough as a solo or second for mine.


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