there should be no compensation for free agency

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

+1 to 99prelim's post.

Disclaimer: I thought we'd make finals this year. (Sorry 99prelim.)

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Im with 99Prelim. We'll be ok.

Kreuzer / Murphy / Gibbs - how many games did they play all together this year? Kreuzer was out in the first half of the season, gibbs the second half. Dale Thomas has missed the whole season. We lost our star in Judd early on.

That's some talent missing right there.

Im actually started to get excited about our future. Can't wait to see the back of that Spud Warnock and Malthouse is no longer at the club. Hell - ill buy another membership because of just that!

We'll get a quality player with our pick 2 and hopefully SOS can work his magic with the pick we get for Hendo and Yazz.

What we really need to do is help these kids develop, something we have been very poor with for 10 years now. Hell, remember Pagan playing Gibbs as a fullback??? I still think that's why Gibbs hasn't really hit the A-Grade star status he so promised.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

We have one average key position forward (Levi) and one average key position back (Jamo).
In a good team these two are your third option, in our team they are our first option.
We have a long way to go.

Agree. Worst list I have ever seen. I really think some people are so used to us being poor they overrate our players. Hard to find many that would play in a top 4 side.

We have the age demographic of a finals side, we lack young talent coming through, our ball use is a disgrace, we have very little if any elite talent, bugger all genuine KP players, and we constantly select players with physical or mental weaknesses for AFL football.

It is changing and it has to but it will get worse before it gets better.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

... not to mention the AFL had a hand in creating the debt in the first place, with their change-of-mind on the legends stand, and a woeful Docklands deal.

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

Kids always look better in a team that is doing reasonably well

Our current issue is less drafting, but more poor development and list decisions i.e. the stripping back of senior players - regardless of what you think of them -> jacobs, betts, garlett, waite, laidler, robinson would all have sat comfortably in our best 22 this year -> yet all we got in return for losing them was half a bucket of chips...

Henderson, yarran, menzel, bell, kreuzer could potentially be added to that list by 2016 (albeit we would expect to get at least reasonable compo for these guys)

In another world, i.e. non-malthouse coached, we'd have had more opportunity to allow players to develop around the edges rather than expecting them to come in and perform straight off.

Docherty, cripps, menzel, buckley, graham, boekhurst, etc would be the promising young kids coming through rather than having the expectation of being the main guys as they are now.

From a development perspective, you only need to look at casboult (only got a decent goal kicking coach this year), cripps (went and got his own running coach) and watson (too heavy for most of his career, actually looks serviceable with the slimmer build but wasn't given a go for 75+% of the year i.e. had been written off)

Except put in the players that we've lost to other teams over the past 2-3 years and we'd be a finals side...

waite -> 35.19 in 20 games - scoring, marking presence and forward line pressure,
bettts -> 54.22 in 20 games - scoring and forward line pressure <- potential AA
garlett -> 38.29 in 21 games - scoring and forward line pressure
jacobs -> 36.4 HOs across 20 games - great tap work and contributes around the ground (15.7 disposals) <- potential AA
robinson -> 20.4 posessions, 6.8 tackles across 20 games - hardness, around the ground pressure
laidler -> 15.2 disposals across 20 games - solid defensive player in a top 4 side...

hampson - reasonable ruck depth (averaged 50+ HOs/game in VFL)

6 first 22 players + a solid reserve/backup


Want more evidence of poor list management? - the following 3 would also be firmly in our best 22

grigg - 21.6 disposals across 21 games - kicks goals and provides reasonable defensive pressure
kennedy - 72.46 across 21 games - KP scoring presence in a top 4 side <- potential AA
chris masten - 26.7 disposals across 19 games in a top 4 side

For all our drafting woes, has there been another team that has given up so many top line players that went on to play extremely well elsewhere? (9 first 22 + 1 reserve) - lets not forget that by 2016, we could potentialy lose up to another 5 best 22 players.... henderson,yarran, menzel, bell, kreuzer

90% of sport is played above the head

Do some of you armageddonists out there really believe we were a 17th place side this year? Well I don't. The MM debacle and all the talk of rebuild/coaching speculation completely distracted the players

Do not underestimate the confidence that Bolton will instil into the team next year...and this is before we even talk about injured players coming back and draft picks

Bring on 2016...the air is slowly being cleared. Have faith in Bolton. Could be coach of the year next year.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

..judd gone, carrots too mostly likely.... ..simmo is near the end too in my opinion, would not be surprised if he pulls the pin soon.. ..he's looking heart broken, I don't think he can go through it all again.. ..he's looking very demoralised.. ..jamo has limited time left, ditto walker.. ..hendo and yarran gone.. ....I was one of those that crazily thought we'd play finals this year.. ..madness... .... ..but with retirements, players nearing the end,, others leaving.. ....we're in a full rebuild..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Every season we say we'll be better next year when the injured players come back. Then players get injured.

The thing is to build a list strong & deep enough to carry injuries at various parts of the season. Apart from the Swans in 2005 it's not often a flag team has had an absolutely charmed run with injuries that year.

It's going to take time (should've started at the end of 2012) & hopefully supporters are prepared to allow Bolton time.

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#DonTheStash

We will win 1-2 games

Yep because round 1-10 were so much better when we had the majority of the list available

..I hope the club is patient.... ..three year rebuild better be pillow talk for the public, and not a firm rule the club swears by..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

After this year.

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dane's trolling again

List isn't as bad as what is imagined. Players just don't try very hard making it look worse than what it is. Port's list dead awful a few years ago under Primus, they weren't trying very hard either, then Hinkley came along and suddenly the same list looked like they could play.

Lots of injuries too making it look worse.

The majority of those lost we should of kept, and we have mostly replaced them with poorer players.

Betts - in effect lost him for Thomas - Fail
Waite - lost for nothing, but probably smart to not offer him 2 year unconditional. Problem was they used the cash on getting $#&^%& Jones - Fail
Garlett - gave up for a pick in the 60s, massive fail. Clem Smith would be lucky to have 1 season as good as Garlett's current season (even though he is far from perfect)
Jacobs - Let him go because we had 3 other ruckmen at the time for picks 33 and 67 which were both busts - Fail
Robbo - Let go for nothing, massive fail
Laidler - Let go for nothing, massive fail

Hampson - Got Docherty for him, I would prefer Docherty - Win for us
Grigg - Wanted to go, we wanted a player and got $@#^& Collins - Fail
Judd trade - still don't think it was a bad one, the issues are more bad trafting recruiting outside of Judd

Go Blues !

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NG
S M C , S F L

Grigg wanted to go because he spent half of the year playing reserves when he clearly was good enough to be in our senior side.
Once again poor list management.

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There is no footy god

No, I think we should have finished 18th.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.