I don't think it would be a trade, I think it'd be a Ben Brown type selection. A trade would be a last resort.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

We'd be pretty lucky to get an AFL ready ruckman for free.

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dane's trolling again

There's plenty of them out there considering you only have 2 or 3 on a list these days. Nobody's taking the risk on certain types until they're 22.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Who should we target?

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dane's trolling again

From a youth perspective, I like Darcy Cameron, and he'll likely be playing for Claremont this week. Would appear to have had an interrupted pre-season, but bounced back in the reserves after a week off to gather 18 disposals, 31 hitouts and a goal.

Wanted us to look at him as a rookie last year (and the year before), but we went with Walsh and Fields. May have to use a draft pick on him this time around. For the mature types there's quite a few dominant ruckman in each of the senior leagues, but we'd best be looking at who has athletic traits that can translate to a higher level of play on the faster AFL surfaces.

We've probably got a close eye on the American athlete running around for Northern this season. He'd be a category B rookie for us.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Ok, do we trade our 'big name players' (eg. Gibbs Yarran Henderson...) for multiple high draft picks to fully rebuild ?

Fair bit of faith in SOS!

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dane's trolling again

What would Walker's value be on the trade market? 2nd round pick?

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@cecil_anderson

Would be lucky to get anything for him. Is 29 this year.

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dane's trolling again

Would still be of use to a contending team. If Cooney went for a pick in the late 30s I'd say Walker could go for around the same. Late 2nd round or 3rd round pick perhaps.

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@cecil_anderson

Maybe on average. If he's got form going into 2016, he'll generate slightly more value than that. If he's spluttering, probably a bit less given a decent contract and he'd be little more than a role player for an established team.


That's moneyball shit with widely available stats with a splattering of scout analysis. Anyone can make a spreadsheet, it's all about well-categorised data.


Not with our current list profile. At the higher end, maybe Murphy if he's really not responding at this club any more, but he's the captain and that's a huge call to make from a media perspective.

I don't see us trading anything other than fringe players for similarly fringe players, or to get a mild upgrade in pick values. A guy like Casboult, or Bell or White, if they don't improve further or find themselves out of the team regularly. Watson is one who might attract interest if his VFL form is solid and we don't give him enough of a chance.

Everybody else that is worth anything in the first 3-4 rounds of the draft is part of a fairly large nucleus given we are in transition, or too early to make a call on under current circumstances. I would much rather us pick the eyes out of the draft given we've got a good batch of F/S types and our need for new rucks means we won't be facing stiff competition in the later rounds of the draft for them.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

What's the point of keeping anyone over 28-29? Are we going to win a Premiership in the next 4-5 years? IMO that's what we should be about.

Trade anyone we have of value and get rid of all these very average players on our list.

The major problem, as has been the case over the last decade is we sign average players to good contracts.

How many years did Mathew Dick get? Tutt, Jones, Warnock, Casboult, Armfield, Ellard, Wood etc. How good was the Thomas deal?

I'd keep Gibbs with the next list built around Cripps, Smith, Jaksch, Docherty and maybe DVR and 1 or 2 others. The rest are up for grabs.

I'd seriously consider trading Kruezer, Henderson, Murphy & Yarran if the deals are right and give us great first round picks.

We need to be trading and bringing in 6-7 picks a year for the next 4 plus years. Don't chase the "big fish" until this is in place.

Plus no specualtive picks with selections inside 30. Pick the BEST available.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

By far the best way to develop young players is to have experience with them. To get to that flag you need to create the bridge to get there. Experience to guide youth is one of them. Otherwise you'll be waiting another 20yrs.

No offence, but to trade those guys would be craziness. Most of those players still have a number of years ahead of them. Be back to the bottom and if we don't draft well, we're screwed.

The way you win flags, recruiting-wise at least, is to get your 2nd and 3rd round picks right too. Creates a depth of very good players. That's the area we have failed big-time in the last decade. Geelong did it well, we've done it miserably. One could say too we have screwed up most of our later first rounder's too. We've traded ok, and developed our rookies well. That's the only thing that's kept us going. That's only got us to the bottom end of the finals though at best.

Spot on Jim, agree totally it's about effective drafting and development, but more importantly we need to maintain a good balance between developing young players with reqiured skill and athletic attributes and our mature, experenced body hardened players.
Team balance and mentoring by our expirenced group is vital for the team development and success.
Just watch Hawthorn draftees 2014 flourish this year, they settle quickly and show such good form early on. Untill we get that right we won't go far.
Ciao

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Go Blue Boys

Is there any mature players on our list you would want developing the next wave?

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Murphy, Judd, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Simpson, Yarran, Walker, Thomas, Jamison, Everitt, Curnow, Tuohy

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Be alot worse without then if they were left to the wolves to fend for themselves. Develops and protects them by taking the oppositions better and physically stronger players. Balance of youth and experience gets the best results.

If you start again then there's too many different type and positions to fill. Key positions are tough enough to develop as it is. Then there's a decent chance you draft picks may not have the talent of the one's you mentioned.

Don't worry about clearing out your good players, key is to get the drafting right. No stupid first round picks and especially get the lower picks alot better. That's what get you up the ladder. Draft poorly and you go no-where.

Common sense prevails.

Was pick 7 a good get for Jaksch and Whiley? We will see.

What we do know is whether you have pick 7 or pick 4 quality KPs are hard to find in latter rounds and very expensive to trade for.

We have to start somewhere and Imo Jaksch and Henderson are a good start for a team we CAN build to fight for success in 5 years time if we haven't got it right now...and we can do it through drafting.

Psych has always said we have to give up a bit to get great draftees, and the more draftees we select the better chance a handful will work out.

We haven't been good at drafting since the draft started. We can't build a great team with a handful is successes. IMO it takes a combination of great draftees ( and let's note Hawks got lucky in 2002 with kPs pick 2 Roughead and pick 4 Franklin: thanks Tigers), great trades Gunston, Gibson, Burgoyne and Lake.

The trades are easier to make when the club is attractive, so off field stability and philosophy and list management (affordability) are working for you not against you.

It isn't going to turn around overnight: on field and off field.

We have to hope the Jaksch, Everitt, Docherty, Henderson, jones type recruitments auger well for a bright future and our drafts Cripps Boekhurst are also the foundation members of our future success. Furthermore the coach has to be spot on, and Imo no one knows if MM is the right or wrong choice for our club to climb the ladder and we might know by the end of the year or during the first year of the next coaches tenure in 2016 if that happens.

No one knows. A few more rounds and the return of Kreuzer in the ruck and Walker in the forward line may tell us more. Hang on to your seat.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

What a great list that is? Mediocrity at it's best.

Simpson is the only obvious standout in that list for me.


PS By the way I didn't say trade out all of them. I offered a few suggestions if the deals were right and said the rest were up for grabs.

To rebuild we need to trade and only some players have value as I detailed. Surely Gibbs, Jamison, Simpson are the ones to help grow the next group of kids. I don't see Kruezer, Murphy, Yarran etc as genuine leaders. At the moment they are part of a culture that needs dramatic change and with that comes hard decisions otherwise we will wallow around mid table for years.

I am only interested in Premierships and the current model isn't working. Change is needed

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

What makes a leader for you? Because I see it as someone who can impart what they have learned on others, adapt to scenarios and bring groups of people forward to march as one, as a team.

Kreuzer and Yarran absolutely can do that. Murphy has shown glimpses and is about to try and tackle his toughest form slump of his career; Curnow does it on the training track and in the clinches. Thomas, Everitt and Judd all rate mentions for various reasons. Everitt has been through programs and seasons at multiple clubs and brings perspective through that at the very least but by all reports he is a magnificent trainer and clearly tactically adept to play virtually anywhere on the ground.

Notice how I didn't include Warnock, Carrazzo, Armfield, Rowe or Ellard, who are all senior types who offer things but ultimately are more inconsistent in the heat of battle. Certainly Carrazzo, Rowe & Ellard are respected leaders within the playing group but the weaker cases in the names I mentioned simply need a small push to present as significantly better options.

Not that it was ever in doubt, but you clearly don't work in anything remotely to do with sports psychology.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.