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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1845
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
The Elliott era continued the previous Rice and Harris era of buying a chasing "one or two big names", that was attempted to solve the Club's problems. Saviors such as: Pratt, Pagan, Judd, Malthouse & Thomas.

The Kernahan era has been the same as the Elliott era and has been a failure.

Statements like "we are Carlton" for the 150th year is lazy and not helpful. It implies looking at history rather than putting things in the place for the future and executing Premiership success.

Since the introduction of the AFL, we have been a failure.

I thought the Club was pushing Write The Future quite heavily?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:10 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
There is a salary cap on players.

There is (as yet) no salary cap on footy departments or administration. One truism Pratt said. Pay and get the best.

Look at what the successful clubs are doing, make offers their key guys cannot refuse and bring them in.

Have our key supporters put money where their mouth is.

If we can build the off field then the on field will come sooner than we think.


As a start, Ryan Trainor for prez. NOW.


Trainor is not the next President.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:10 am 
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Craig Bradley
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mikkey wrote:
I said it before. Everybody knows the problem. Bruce said it before. Nobody doubts that Demons and us have been the worst recruiters. But why bring this up now? You should listen to the radio talk back now. Do you think getting fewer members will help the club ? I know there are a lot of people who delight in negativity but it won't improve the club.

Damaging the brand right now by looking back is not what is needed.


Headline in the news with grab from Bruce: no chance of success the next 4 years and Bulldogs a much better list.


1) Why does Bruce Mathieson care how many members we have?
2) Is it in Bruce Mathieson's interests to have more members/further vested interest in the club?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:17 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Dominator_7 wrote:
Dare we say it.... IS it time to strip back and 'rebuild' ?


The closer we look at it, the more it really seems like a "green fields" job.
Total strip back required.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:26 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
scottopee wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Everyone we recruited who was coached by Ratten and Co have never reached the level expected. They came is as kids, were taught a very ballistic unaccountable style of football. The mistake was putting an untried, inexperienced coach in charge of kids. Both learning on job had disaster written all over it.



Alastair Clarkson, Mark Thompson & John Worsfold all first time coaches and all won flags with young sides. This we must get the best from somewhere else is typical Carlton old out dated thinking. Develop the best simple.


All of those you listed did significant time as asst coaches etc. Ratten had one year at Melbourne then coached in the suburbs. Massive difference.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:31 am 
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Craig Bradley
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So Bruce states the bleeding obvious, again. We as a club are the best at identifying deficiencies when its too late... worst at fixing them before they can hurt us.

We are Carlton... its the other guys fault.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:33 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 1392
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
There is a salary cap on players.

There is (as yet) no salary cap on footy departments or administration. One truism Pratt said. Pay and get the best.

Look at what the successful clubs are doing, make offers their key guys cannot refuse and bring them in.

Have our key supporters put money where their mouth is.

If we can build the off field then the on field will come sooner than we think.


As a start, Ryan Trainor for prez. NOW.


Trainor is not the next President.


Let's hope not!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:44 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
mikkey wrote:
Footy followers read the HS and listen to SEN. Negative stories cost memberships. If we win the next 3 games it might not matter, but it's right now you sell memberships. Bruce was just on SEN and so negative. If you were in doubt if to buy a membership and you hear this..... He even talked down Menzel and Cripps as nothing special.


If you want to improve brand and membership I suggest winning games is a great start. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:59 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Synbad,

The major point I disagree with you on is that you resent the influential families. I want one seat to remain for matheison and one for Pratt Why? Because their job was to fix the finances and basically they did it out of their own pockets, through increased memebership and sponsorship. Most of the rest should go. They went on the board and were very honest about not being football people and football was not their responsibility. Kernahan, Swann, Ratten, Gleeson are/were responsible for football. Malthouse is now. I just think you tend to scapegoat the wrong people. You have to be very careful about throwing the baby out with the bath water and if you do it you need to know who the replacements are.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:14 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
rhys87 wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
There is a salary cap on players.

There is (as yet) no salary cap on footy departments or administration. One truism Pratt said. Pay and get the best.

Look at what the successful clubs are doing, make offers their key guys cannot refuse and bring them in.

Have our key supporters put money where their mouth is.

If we can build the off field then the on field will come sooner than we think.


As a start, Ryan Trainor for prez. NOW.


Trainor is not the next President.


Let's hope not!


Two against which is fair enough BUT without reasons. Care to elaborate ?? Or give an alternate.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:20 am 
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Horrie Clover
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Location: A Simmo chip pass from Glenferrie Oval
Love him or loathe him, it's true and we all know it. (Well second worst). But we missed an opportunity to review our club in Ratten's last year. Geelong had a good look at themselves when placed in a similar position, while we got Mick. Whether that was the best call or not will never be known as we never canvassed the alternatives.

Carlton still behave as we did in the good old days, but they were 20 years ago. If we can't get it together, we will be in 16 cups in 100 years time. The game has changed so much yet we remain well below the elite. We need to get senior people into the best clubs in the world to see their practices and bring them home. Change will take a long time and we've been sitting on our hands for a decade. Time to get cracking


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:22 am 
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Robert Walls
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People forget the Tigers in recent history ...

Remember their track record in recruiting??
How's Oakley-Nicholls going these days?

We need to turn things around, and we are heading in that direction.
I think Bruce has jumped in and taken advantage of the usual hysteria that follows a Round 1 loss.

What is his motive?
Is he trying to put public pressure on Sticks and the board?
Surely he knows that things will change at board level next season, and not before then?
Is he posturing as a warning to the next President/board?

Sadly recruiting is not an exact science.
But if you put good management in place, then I imagine you can get better performance from your recruiting team.

I have a theory that what was lacking over recent years was effective governance and control measures to review Hughes and the department.
How was Hughes being assessed on an ongoing basis?
Who was reviewing the structure and strategy of the recruiting team?
Who decided to keep the odd tandem of Rogers and Hughes in place by demoting Hughes?
What could have been done to better synchronise our list management and recruiting strategies?
Did we adapt our strategy after the Judd and Fev trades as effectively as we could have?
Was the interaction with the coaches over recruiting decisions functional and effective?

Is Andy McKay fixing things?

I know nothing about footy recruiting, but as the average joe bloggs these are the type of things that go through my mind.

It's too easy to have a knee jerk reaction and rant on about how crap the end result of our recruiting has been.
We need to focus on the processes.

Hughes is gone.
We need to fix things and move on


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:27 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Upper Swan.
Thanks Bruce.


flower deadshit.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:29 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 19393
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
Salsiccia wrote:
Whether that was the best call or not will never be known as we never canvassed the alternatives.


We never do.

It's either a club great with little experience (Ratten) or a big name who is most likely past it.

Unfortunately the decisions are made to appease the nuff nuff members.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:46 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14986
He only said what most of here have been saying for the last few years. Perhaps Bruce reads TC.
Our recruiting is terrible. The one thing that really stood out in that article is that we only have 13 players under the age of 23 on our list, with the average being 19. It was really disappointing that none of our new recruits played on Sunday, its something that i have always loved watching early in the season.
When was our last RS nomination? That long ago i cant remember.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am 
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Bruce Doull
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What has SOS done to show he can manage/improve a rebuilding list?

To date he has managed a list of kids put together with the aid of the absolute lion’s share of the top end of two drafts. Entirely different scenario to what we face.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:56 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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kezza wrote:
He only said what most of here have been saying for the last few years. Perhaps Bruce reads TC.
Our recruiting is terrible. The one thing that really stood out in that article is that we only have 13 players under the age of 23 on our list, with the average being 19. It was really disappointing that none of our new recruits played on Sunday, its something that i have always loved watching early in the season.
When was our last RS nomination? That long ago i cant remember.



I think it was Yarran in his first year

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:17 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
kezza wrote:
When was our last RS nomination? That long ago i cant remember.


I have been highlighting that for a while. True indictment on our list.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 1392
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
rhys87 wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
There is a salary cap on players.

There is (as yet) no salary cap on footy departments or administration. One truism Pratt said. Pay and get the best.

Look at what the successful clubs are doing, make offers their key guys cannot refuse and bring them in.

Have our key supporters put money where their mouth is.

If we can build the off field then the on field will come sooner than we think.


As a start, Ryan Trainor for prez. NOW.


Trainor is not the next President.


Let's hope not!


Two against which is fair enough BUT without reasons. Care to elaborate ?? Or give an alternate.


Heard from someone who's judgement I trust that he doesnt present himself in the most professional manner (doesn't speak on behalf of the club well)...something that this club needs after Kernahan.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:43 pm
Posts: 4745
kezza wrote:
He only said what most of here have been saying for the last few years. Perhaps Bruce reads TC.
Our recruiting is terrible. The one thing that really stood out in that article is that we only have 13 players under the age of 23 on our list, with the average being 19. It was really disappointing that none of our new recruits played on Sunday, its something that i have always loved watching early in the season.
When was our last RS nomination? That long ago i cant remember.


+1. Play the kids FFS. No future in sticking with the proven plodders and turnover merchants.


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