Although Leigh Matthews on Saturday's 3aw football preview said Kreuzer might just be a B grader.

Not a bad discussion of our list if you would like to podcast.

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Get comfortable being uncomfortable

He does now.

@CarltonFC Malthouse: "I can categorically tell you that Gibbs and Kreuzer are untouchable. UNTOUCHABLE." #IAMCARLTON

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..this is the same mathews that said henderson was only ever gonna be an avg kpd, and didnt have what it takes to be a kpf.. ..he's also the same guy that said dee's shouldn't have gone for clarke, he wasnt that good, and would have been better off getting hudson..

..he's a commentator these days, and they only ever go game by game with their comments.. ..you'll hear the same guys wax lyrical about a player, and hear they downgrade the same player just a few weeks later..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Extending the argument of daftdaftdaftdaftdaft, Matthews may well be a dumbass

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

..rubbish, he was sent back initially cos he was a scrawny very light very young kid.. ..later, cos we had no kicking talent back there.. ..he never needed to learn accountability, he was one of our best tacklers in his first season, he was always good for minding his opponent.. ..Murphy was the one that ignored his opponent and would run fwd of the ball at every chance, if anyone needed to have accountability instilled into them it was him..

..the problem was, that gibbs was used in a way that required him to sag off the contests and recieve the ball, he was the 'distributor', and you could just watch him hanging back.. ..it was instructions, and he lost much of his instinctive creative play.. ..he never played with that manic urgency anyway, but the hesitancy was drilled into him.. ..it's not permanent, but the culture needs a good shake-up, and a player like him, if he puts up a few more pies type perfroamnces needs to be dropped..he probbaly hasnt been dropped from a team since he was a kid..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Kruz has what most of our list hasn't got that we need.

The desire to win and the motivation to achieve that goal.

If MM does consider that kruezer or Gibbs are on the trade table he would not be saying that publicly

can you actually go nowhere ?

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NG
S M C , S F L

You sure can, there's a road to it.

The future is certain, give us time to work it out.

Yeah.

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that's comforting camelboy, because after scanning through the lyrics of Ain't gonna bump with no big fat woman, I just haven't got a comeback.

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NG
S M C , S F L

This would be just an incredible example of Carlton incompetence. We had Josh Kennedy and gave him up as part of the Judd deal to retain the #1 pick. Now we are considering trading the guy we got with that pick to get another #1 pick to use on a guy we hope might be as good as Josh Kennedy!! We are like a mangy dog chasing its tail. If we trade heavily for Boyd you almost know he won't develop into the player we expect him to be. Who knows maybe in 4 years we can trade him for another #1 pick and try and get a ruckman! Why did we recruit Jacobs/Hammo/Big K and Warnock. How many first rucks are needed at the Nthn Blueants. Whatever trade we do you just know we are going to get it wrong. The only trade we have clearly won on was Fev, and that fell in it lap. If it was up to us we wd have got Bradbury and Rischitelli. Can we get rid of the board and the CEO and get some people in who understand long term, thinking, drafting and football.

Agree, but no-one within the club or with inside knowledge on this site, has mentioned Kreuzer or Gibbs. He is only responding to speculation from clowns such as David King, and Luke "love what he brings to the table" Darcy.

Swann says we are keen, and Synbad has mentioned they are going to have a crack at it. Nothing else.

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"They're [REDACTED]'

The Club is bigger than the individual

I am not sure that we at Carlton understand that....

yet......

The club is made up of many individuals, some of whom get to make decisions that make (or in our case usually break) the club. Those individuals, the bad decision makers, need to be replaced.

Anyway GWS will want something pretty juicy for the #1 pick. But as we have proved several times, the #1 pick won't necessarily turn out to be the best player of the draft, or a matchwinner. Not sure if Warnock and Yarran will do it, who else do we have who they need and has currency, and we are willing to part with. Maybe Warnock and our #7 pick?. If we get Boyd I hope he is a star but by the time he is Judd Carrazzo, Simmo Scotland Waite and others will be gone and we will be starting again. Which ever way we look at it, success is further away than it seemed 6 or 7 years ago, how on earth did we manage that.

It isn't about the number 1 picks, its about how good the number 1 picks are.

How did we get nearlly all the other picks so wrong over a 5-6 year period (Kennedy the exception)...we really were down on our knees and needed excellent management to get us to the 17th and 18th bywithin a decade....we are miles off in 2013....unless...a miracle....how can I call myself a carlton supporter if I have to wait for a miracle to happen...since Harmsy's tap in to Sheldon.

Kreuzer may not have peaked yet and on his way to winning the Brownlow WCE's Lynch missed out on thus far despite being the dominant ruckman. Do we need a Sandilands or is Colllingwoods Brown (recruited from NM) the answer to 2nd ruckman? WCE with Cox and Nic Nat the exception.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Well we can close about ten threads now. Kreuzer and Gibbs are 'untouchable' according to MM.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

I couldn't care less who is untouchable, I just want to stop being shit.

..it's not about picks, it's about 'culture'.. ..we have a culture of rubbish.. ..we 'buy in' who and what we need, we don't develop.. ..and that's been the issue for far too long, and it infects the playing list.. ..number 1's, trade in the champ, trade in a player to help the champ,, nobody takes ownership, cos there's always 'the answer' just waiting around the corner to rescue everyone.. ..it's why there's so many passengers on field [and off field for that matter]..

..week in, week out, year after year you can count on one hand which players give their all in every game no matter the scoreline.. ..we even had that "no [more] passengers" slogan, and the HTFU theme.. ..but bottom line, there's been too much left to too few for too long..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..