This is where the argument goes off line - A posters notes that the 3 players albeit indigenous go missing when the heat is on and it turns into a race argument - I have been saying for a long time that 3 small forwards is not the way to go as small forwards should be cream of the crop to the be all and end all -

These boys do go missing at times and often to much - there is no doubting their individual brilliance but we see that all to infrequently - But they are not the only ones in this team that goes missing but they stand out more so than others because their best is far better than any of the other players in the team . so when they are not on song it really effects the whole side performances .

It is not too different from when we had Fev- His brilliance was there to be hold but when he was off he was really off and it effected the team - Good teams have consistent players that turn up each week

These boys don't

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

again who turns up every week and plays a high brand of footy for us?

why them???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

..players will have their off days, but there's a few that the majority of the time try hard and compete with everything they've got even if the team is being smashed.. ..these are the finals type footy players we have.. ..just not enough of them..

..we should start a list and see which players we think make the grade..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Because you notice their absence more - Their good is very very good bordering on spectacular but when they are off you notice- Other players don't have the highs these guys have and their impact on games is less noticeable - If the likes of Robbo has a bad game you don't notice it because his good games are not that good - Same applies to Simpson Cachia Scotland Gibbs and more .
These blokes are game changers their impact is immense

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

..our team isn't good enough to carry more than a few passengers.. ..and we don't have enough players that regularly do the hard stuff.. ..this is the year that MM's sorting it all out.. ..he's already tightened us up but there still needs a list working over.. ..he'll have his own list of finals footy types and the rest need to get on board or lookout..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Now Bill you know all about negative attacks and confining them to a couple of players. I'll indulge you Bill... speaking of bullies and amateur hour psychology.

Now listen up again... it's not about last Fri, or this year... it's an observation over a number of years. I single them out because they can win us games of footy... Armfield's a warrior but no match winner, Bootsma no match winner. Tell me a big game against top quality opposition over the past 3 years where any of the three I have mentioned have stood up??

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17 4 10

Atleast these guys dominate sometimes we have a number 1 pick ruckman who never dominates

..issat the same ruckman that was 5th in the B&F in his 2nd season..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

The same one who has fired a shot since yep

Well judging by some of those who placed highly that year i don't see the relevance of that to the current situation;

2009 Best and Fairest Count

1st Chris Judd 558
2nd Marc Murphy 451
3rd Bryce Gibbs 415
4th Brendan Fevola 390
5th Matthew Kreuzer 311
6th Jordan Russell 281
7th Paul Bower 279
8th Kade Simpson 254
9th Bret Thornton 225
10th Aaron Joseph 201

The other point i would make is that was 4 years ago, it proves nothing in 2013

Liste here Bill.. out of a team of 40 guys and over a few years of never winning big games .. and up and down form..you chose the 3 indigneous players as flat track bullies.
So i shall go deep into your mind and pull out what i think is a major reason.. and Bill... its a MASSIVE coincidence that you have targetted 3 indigenous players.
Syd does the same but reading Syds view on the world in Talking Stuff its no surprise.
My point is be aware of what youre saying.... you might not see it but there is a deep rooted reason why you chose 3 indigenous small forwards as flat track bulies from a side that is not known for its lets say ruthlesness.

We are a whole side of flat track bullies.

And bill.... take a number and wait in the waiting room till i call you next time.. no line jumping ok???
Ill get to the bottom of you yet...

You do realise you cherry picked our flat track bullies from our club and came up with the indigenous boys??

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

As I suspected Bill... you deflect and don't answer the question I posed. But please, continue with the amateur Psych... it's MASSIVELY amusing.

I tell you one thing, if they come out and star tonight when we REALLY need them then I'll be happy to eat humble pie. When they are on song they are a joy to watch.

But to this stage they have not stood up once in a big game. Results count my friend.

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17 4 10

Which one of you is Bill?

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#DonTheStash

..you reckon he's not had any good games since..?.. ..seriously.. ..in his 2nd season, he's 5th B&F.. ..a ruck, in 2nd season.. ..and you're not impressed.. ..meanwhile, neither Yarran nor Garlett have gotten even close to such a B&F standing, in all their years at the club.. ..and they've only been there 1 year less, and are smalls that should really come on far quicker than a ruckman.. ..neither of those have as many charlie votes either, of which Krooz has 2 BoG votings.. ..done post ACL i might add.. ..only betts has more charlie votes, though plenty of opportunity to have gotten more, timeline wise too..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

..the relevance is simple.. ..he stated krooz never dominates.. ..and it's a rubbish statement.. ..the B&F list of '09 is significant.. ..finished 7th, so not a spoon year so no 'crap list' comment.... ..and krooz as a ruck was only in his 2nd year.. ..discounting that achievement highlights ignorance.. ..that good in just his 2nd yr shows how much of a talent he was, giving good service right away. ...as opposed to the players rated against him as having more dominating games..

..in regards to 2009 vs 2013.. ..he blew his knee out mid 2010, comeback mid 2011 and right away carrying 1st ruck again until reinjured prior to finals.. ..early 2012 tears meninscus, plays out the season getting fluid drained from knee most weeks.. ..2013 fit again, moving well, breaks thumb badly round 3.. ..back after 3 weeks off, soon after carrying ruck again.. ..too young, carrying injuries, he's still good enough to carry the ruck..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I agree in his second season he did well and looked like becoming a gun

Since then however he has been at best a good average player

So he just beat Russell and bower in a b and f

..and yet since his did his knee, he's had 2 BoG performances.. ....you keep under rating krooz, and yet he's had dominating games, which according to you he never has.. ..and this is post knee.. ..meanwhile, neither garlett nor yarran have had 2 BoG games.. ..so if krooz is avg, what are they..?..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

..and yet in all their time on the list, krooz still has that high finish.. ..what about the others..?.. ..sure, make fun that krooz 'just beat' russell and bower.. ..but what do the others' B&F track as?.. ..i mean, even russell and bower have had good finishes, why not them..?

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

..mind you not meaning to heap it on the small fwds..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..