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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Effes wrote:
Stop giving picks away - we don't get a good chance at developing talent because we never !@#$%& draft it!


This.

The only exception being if it is a one-for-one trade for a young player that will improve our list more than the draftee would.

We actually need to start identifying talent at the high end instead of getting excited over the player with the biggest profile who suits a need and then leave the rest to chance. Good sides recruit good players (in bulk) and build teams around them. We diagnose 'problems' and patch them up.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:21 pm 
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formerly Blue Boots

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kots1234 wrote:
choo wrote:
kots1234 wrote:
2. Henderson be allowed to develop as our CHB. I much prefer him down back.


Henderson is a really interesting one.
He moves well on the forward line and gets to good spots.
My knock on him is that he is a little slow off the mark and struggles to get separation from his opponent.
I actually like him down back because he can take a gun, zone off, is a very good kick and makes good decisions.
I think we're more likely to improve if Hendo drives from the backline



Agree - seems a little too slow up forward. As Psych commented he does look like a natural forward but I think we are a better club when he is running off half back.

Either way it's a good dilemma to have.

Henderson looks good at both ends of the ground but needs tells me he is needed as our key forward. If he fills a CHF role for us, who knows what it can do for Waite?
Watson could fill CHB down the track, and McCarthy was looking good in the 2s a few months back as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:30 pm 
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I'm generally of the opinion that if you've got someone who is a natural forward you use them there. They are just to hard to find.

The issue we have is that Henderson is also our best key defender.

IMO vitally important that we keep developing McCarthy, Watson, Jamsion & at this point even Thornton as our key back.

Personally I would be much happier seeing Waite at CHB. He played his best and most consistent football there and he can always push forward when needed.

They would then be supported by Laidler & McInness and maybe Davies who can also play tall when needed or if match up suits.

Key forwards to be sorted out between Henderson, Mitchell, Casboult, Rowe and sometimes Kruezer. They will be supported by Walker and even White if needed.

IMO that is potentially our best set up!



Just as a left field thought. Same Rowe, I have seen him play for a while. He is a goer, strong, quick over 20m and will do any job required.

What about trying him at FB over the pre season? IMO he has the assets to do it and would the "Rutten" type we need. Be a good match up on guys like Tippett, Brown or eventually Patton.

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Last edited by ThePsychologist on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:35 pm 
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ThePsychologist wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that if you've got someone who is a natural forward you use them there. They are just to hard to find.
The issue we have is that Henderson is also our best key defender.

IMO vitally important that we keep developing McCarthy, Watson, Jamsion & at this point even Thornton as our key back.

Personally I would be much happier seeing Waite at CHB. He played his best and most consistent football there and he can always push forward when needed.

They would then be supported by Laidler & McInness who can also play tall when needed or if match up suits.

Key forwards to be sorted out between Henderson, Mitchell, Casboult and sometimes Kruezer. They will be supported by Walker and even White if needed.

IMO that is potentially our best set up!

Yep, we are in that dilemma now. Also Rowe is an option...if he gets himself fit again that is.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:21 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Our Current List.

Rucks:

Kruezer Warnock Warnock


Key Position Players:

Jamison Watson Henderson Waite Casboult Mitchell Bower Rowe Thornton McCarthy


Third Talls:

Laidler White McInness Walker Duigan


Runners:

Judd Murphy Gibbs Carrazzo McLean Collins Scotland Simpson Ellard Armfield Yarran Betts Garlett Davies OKeefe Russell Robinson Bell Dale Joseph Buckley Kucas Bootsma Curnow Kerr Heyne Carter


When you go through I still believe we have a very talented list and can cover most positions.

With some luck with injuries and some smart development and some shrewd recruitment this year we can be well in it in 2013! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Will Heath Scotland play on next year? He is playing well enough and I hope he does but he just turned 32 and I'm not sure about his contractual situation?

Can't see us trading any of the ruckmen - I think that the club views them both individually and as a collective more as prized assets than bargaining chips. I interpret the club re-signing Warnock for three years as a genuine show of faith rather than a mere tactical manoeuvre to exploit at the end of the season. Neither Kreuzer nor Hampson are going to be traded either. As I said, I reckon that the club sees our ruck situation as one of, if not our major strength going forward. So I can't see any movement on this front.

As others have said, if we are to trade, it will be the Bower/Russell/Thornton/Davies/White group. Maybe even Ellard who might not get the opportunities at Carlton. McLean looked gone a few months back but has been one of our better players since coming into the side and has surely sealed his spot for next season.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Blues2005 wrote:
As others have said, if we are to trade, it will be the Bower/Russell/Thornton/Davies/White group. Maybe even Ellard who might not get the opportunities at Carlton.

Wouldn't get much in return for any of those guys. Very little to offer in the way of trade currency there. Why would a club trade for any of them when there's a good chance they could pick them up in one of the drafts?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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ThePsychologist wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
Breaks my heart to think we need this thread and it's still only July. What the hell will we talk about in September??!!


New coach
Trade week
Delistings
Draft


2013 marketing slogan brainstorm
2013 alternative strip options

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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aboynamedsue wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
As others have said, if we are to trade, it will be the Bower/Russell/Thornton/Davies/White group. Maybe even Ellard who might not get the opportunities at Carlton.

Wouldn't get much in return for any of those guys. Very little to offer in the way of trade currency there. Why would a club trade for any of them when there's a good chance they could pick them up in one of the drafts?


We probably wouldn't get much in return. A player like Ellard might have some currency. I just think that those are the players the club would be looking to trade and not someone like Warnock who two weeks ago was offered a new three-year contract.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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when youre players have a crappy year .. its hard to go premium trades with them.

the time to trade players is when you get the most out of them....

Simon White would command a kings ransom......

Its abit like supercoach ... if theyre not performing you dont want them and you also dont trade them in... and their currency falls away.

Id trade Duigan myself..... he would bring more than most of those guys.. maybe 3rd round pick... could even get a late second rounder.. but doubt it.

Truth is if you want something good... you have to trade someth ng good.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Synbad wrote:
when youre players have a crappy year .. its hard to go premium trades with them.

the time to trade players is when you get the most out of them....

Simon White would command a kings ransom......

Its abit like supercoach ... if theyre not performing you dont want them and you also dont trade them in... and their currency falls away.

Id trade Duigan myself..... he would bring more than most of those guys.. maybe 3rd round pick... could even get a late second rounder.. but doubt it.

Truth is if you want something good... you have to trade someth ng good.



With the way the club has gone with 2nd and 3rd rounders I would rather keep Duigan


They need to do what the pies did they identified they had holes in their list went out got Krakour Ball Jolly and tarrant and won a flag

2nd and 3rd rounders are 4-5 year projects

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Blues2005 wrote:
Will Heath Scotland play on next year? He is playing well enough and I hope he does but he just turned 32 and I'm not sure about his contractual situation?

Can't see us trading any of the ruckmen - I think that the club views them both individually and as a collective more as prized assets than bargaining chips. I interpret the club re-signing Warnock for three years as a genuine show of faith rather than a mere tactical manoeuvre to exploit at the end of the season. Neither Kreuzer nor Hampson are going to be traded either. As I said, I reckon that the club sees our ruck situation as one of, if not our major strength going forward. So I can't see any movement on this front.

As others have said, if we are to trade, it will be the Bower/Russell/Thornton/Davies/White group. Maybe even Ellard who might not get the opportunities at Carlton. McLean looked gone a few months back but has been one of our better players since coming into the side and has surely sealed his spot for next season.

Scotland should finish a year early and captain the twos - make way for youth we need to develop


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Blues2005 wrote:
Will Heath Scotland play on next year? He is playing well enough and I hope he does but he just turned 32 and I'm not sure about his contractual situation?

Can't see us trading any of the ruckmen - I think that the club views them both individually and as a collective more as prized assets than bargaining chips. I interpret the club re-signing Warnock for three years as a genuine show of faith rather than a mere tactical manoeuvre to exploit at the end of the season. Neither Kreuzer nor Hampson are going to be traded either. As I said, I reckon that the club sees our ruck situation as one of, if not our major strength going forward. So I can't see any movement on this front.

As others have said, if we are to trade, it will be the Bower/Russell/Thornton/Davies/White group. Maybe even Ellard who might not get the opportunities at Carlton. McLean looked gone a few months back but has been one of our better players since coming into the side and has surely sealed his spot for next season.

Scotland should finish a year early and captain the twos - make way for youth we need to develop


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:59 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Synbad wrote:
when youre players have a crappy year .. its hard to go premium trades with them.

the time to trade players is when you get the most out of them....

Simon White would command a kings ransom......

Its abit like supercoach ... if theyre not performing you dont want them and you also dont trade them in... and their currency falls away.

Id trade Duigan myself..... he would bring more than most of those guys.. maybe 3rd round pick... could even get a late second rounder.. but doubt it.

Truth is if you want something good... you have to trade someth ng good.



With the way the club has gone with 2nd and 3rd rounders I would rather keep Duigan


They need to do what the pies did they identified they had holes in their list went out got Krakour Ball Jolly and tarrant and won a flag

2nd and 3rd rounders are 4-5 year projects

So we need to do a MM????

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:02 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Synbad wrote:
when youre players have a crappy year .. its hard to go premium trades with them.

the time to trade players is when you get the most out of them....

Simon White would command a kings ransom......

Its abit like supercoach ... if theyre not performing you dont want them and you also dont trade them in... and their currency falls away.

Id trade Duigan myself..... he would bring more than most of those guys.. maybe 3rd round pick... could even get a late second rounder.. but doubt it.

Truth is if you want something good... you have to trade someth ng good.





With the way the club has gone with 2nd and 3rd rounders I would rather keep Duigan


They need to do what the pies did they identified they had holes in their list went out got Krakour Ball Jolly and tarrant and won a flag

2nd and 3rd rounders are 4-5 year projects



That was only after a few years of finishing in/near the top 4.

We haven't finished top 4 at all.

The worst thing we could do is think we're close to a flag than we actually are.

If we should go by the thinking "With the way the club has gone with 2nd and 3rd rounders I would rather keep Duigan" then we might as well shut up shop and give it away.

Beams, Zaharakis, Shuey, Trengove, Redden, Fyfe, Robinson, Duncan, Christensen, Harper, Hannebery all in the late teens/early fourties picks. Why don't we give ourselves the chance to draft and develop these types?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:17 am 
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Craig Bradley
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If we are replacing Ratten, does this mean we're replacing the last 5 years of the direction & roster we have?

ie will a new coach come in, and commit mass tradings/ sackings and start rebuilding it with required players identified by them?

Hard to see the list management and the direction it'll take until the coaching situation is confirmed.


Last edited by Braithy on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:16 pm 
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I think you would play Rowe in his natural position first Psych, he might still make it there. :wink: Then see how he goes. And Jamison will be our first choice FB. Wouldn't mind looking into a FB on the rookie list or ND however.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Most interesting decision at the moment is whether we keep Curnow or not.

We have to make a decision to promote at the end of the year. Can Bell take his spot? If Ellard regains his place ahead of Curnow, you wonder if that's it for him?

I'd say at this point probably 75% likely to be retained..

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Bower, Russell and Kerr for certs to be out. Who else?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:52 am 
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Rod Ashman
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O'Keefe might struggle. Thornton too

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