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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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But it does support his stand on Ratts keeping his job this year and next and his bagging of the fitness staff on Radio.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Kouta wrote:
Bomba Sheldon wrote:
j.scarponi wrote:
Throw $250-300k at Patrick Karnezis and play him as a medium forward
Throw $700-800k at Taylor Walker and see if it bites.


I would rather throw good coin at a good recruiter and try and recruit from the ground up - we keep wanting to go back to the old ways of cheque book recruiting established players from other clubs

get the cattle first and then develop second

we have been terrible with this

What came first, the recruiter or the development coach?

We have good recruiters in Rogers and Hughes who know talent when they see it. If they were terrible, we wouldn't have been playing finals since 2009 after turning the list over in that time frame. Strange that some Carlton supporters think we've picked players that weren't on the radar of other clubs. :?


well i tend to think some of our choices of late such as Lucas when we could have gone for Talia still confuses me . When we picked up Watson i thought this sounds good until a mate who watches a bit of the TAC cup said think of Jason Cloke with a booming kick, Marcus Davies, sort a poor decision maker. Easy to criticise i know but I don't reckon we have got bang for our buck with draft picks. Understand that not every pick is going to be a winner, but early picks especially second round we have usually got these chronically wrong - we have fared better with rookies at times.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The recruiting has been compromised by a flawed belief that a) speed is the key and b) we don't have time to develop our own players.

That's why we have McLean and not pick 12 and why we lost Grigg.
That's why we have Warnock and not pick 27 and why We lost Jacobs.
That's why we have speedy stick insects instead of contested possie winners.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Walls article
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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we just lost the plot with recruitment and development

chris judd was might thick wallpaper wasnt he????

it was obvious we needed more inside good mids

we always lost to the teams with these types and would bully teams that didnt...

instead of improving our deficiencies.. we ignored them

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Wayne Hughes is an awful awful recruiter. Should have sacked him a long time ago. Why is he still at the club??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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KoRn wrote:
Wayne Hughes is an awful awful recruiter. Should have sacked him a long time ago. Why is he still at the club??


But we got him from Freo ..........hang on?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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cimm1979 wrote:
The recruiting has been compromised by a flawed belief that a) speed is the key and b) we don't have time to develop our own players.

That's why we have McLean and not pick 12 and why we lost Grigg.
That's why we have Warnock and not pick 27 and why We lost Jacobs.
That's why we have speedy stick insects instead of contested possie winners.

speed is good
but u need a balance

these guys got carried away and forgot what the game is about

first find the ball then u can run with it

just totally stupid

thats why for a couple of years the recruiting totally got up my goat.. and theta why i culdnt understand how a club can be so stupid...!!!!

i mean these are football people yes???

and they dont understand the BASICS?????

Its ridiculous

anyway what im hoping for is good riddance to all those that [REDACTED] it all up

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Kouta wrote:
Bomba Sheldon wrote:
j.scarponi wrote:
Throw $250-300k at Patrick Karnezis and play him as a medium forward
Throw $700-800k at Taylor Walker and see if it bites.


I would rather throw good coin at a good recruiter and try and recruit from the ground up - we keep wanting to go back to the old ways of cheque book recruiting established players from other clubs

get the cattle first and then develop second

we have been terrible with this

What came first, the recruiter or the development coach?

We have good recruiters in Rogers and Hughes who know talent when they see it. If they were terrible, we wouldn't have been playing finals since 2009 after turning the list over in that time frame. Strange that some Carlton supporters think we've picked players that weren't on the radar of other clubs. :?


Indeed, which does come first? I'd say, technically speaking, you have to get the players first, wouldn't you think?

You should know that there is much more to it than simply players deserving to be on an AFL list somewhere. There's different degrees of suitibility and you wouldn't want to have too many of the lesser types.

I'd say a lack of draft picks in the meat of the draft and perhaps a lack of vision or balls would be enough to temper a club's effectiveness in recruiting.

By the way, blokes like Cordy are also supposed to know their stuff, too, so it's six of one half dozen the other.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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when it comes down to the team
The coach has a vision of what he wants ../

so he writes produces and directs the screenplay

what kind of players he wants

how theyre to be developed
how they should play

how theyre conditioned.

Our guy had no idea... and thats why the things a mess.

But i also believe our recruiters were cowardly in their efforts to recruit what we need.

They really believed after 35 there was nothing... and took hbfers cos theyre a nothing position.. and left overs.

Same with taking 3 talls in one draft.. its a bit bolder but really dumb planning....
Setanta for Rowe???Was he kidding me?????? :screwy:

I had hopes for McArthy.. i think the other two will end up being busts... and the way we develop McArthy will also.


Geez that Austin looks ok though for the Doggies.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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George Stone must have pissed himself when he saw us going after Mclean whilst they got Kennedy for some late picks and Luke Parker at pick 40 in the 2010 draft.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Austin Kennedy Jacobs Grigg - all finding a role at other clubs - all Hughes picks

I think development moreso an issue than recruitment


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Rexy wrote:
Austin Kennedy Jacobs Grigg - all finding a role at other clubs - all Hughes picks

I think development moreso an issue than recruitment


Maybe.

All related though isnt it. ?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Bomba Sheldon wrote:
well i tend to think some of our choices of late such as Lucas when we could have gone for Talia still confuses me . When we picked up Watson i thought this sounds good until a mate who watches a bit of the TAC cup said think of Jason Cloke with a booming kick, Marcus Davies, sort a poor decision maker. Easy to criticise i know but I don't reckon we have got bang for our buck with draft picks. Understand that not every pick is going to be a winner, but early picks especially second round we have usually got these chronically wrong - we have fared better with rookies at times.

Watto isn't a tweener like Jason Cloke.

Robinson, Garlett, Betts, Jamison and Jacobs were good late picks. Fools judge Hampson as a forward when he's a ruck. Hine wanted Hammer. Grigg was worth 19.

Misquided footy supporter logic says you want Talia because he's a tall. Good mail that Rendell would have gone for Lucas if we hadn't picked him. You'd be happier with Jetta, Menzel and Fyfe. Pittard is injured, but is a gun with skill and the right attitude. We still need small defenders. There were no real inside mids around at our pick 11 and 12.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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cimm1979 wrote:
The recruiting has been compromised by a flawed belief that a) speed is the key and b) we don't have time to develop our own players.

That's why we have McLean and not pick 12 and why we lost Grigg.
That's why we have Warnock and not pick 27 and why We lost Jacobs.
That's why we have speedy stick insects instead of contested possie winners.


You are probably correct with most of that but you can add a bit less height to the equation, as well, because when you downsize in terms of of overall draft position, you downsize in physical terms too. This is because of attrition; the 'best available' are going to have a bit less going for them and size is quite often one of these things.

Holding on to some of these players until the death knell doesn't help, either, because it limits your resources. I'd rather risk players coming good and a higher player turnover than risk not finding the odd gem here and there.

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Last edited by Pafloyul on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Kouta wrote:
Bomba Sheldon wrote:
well i tend to think some of our choices of late such as Lucas when we could have gone for Talia still confuses me . When we picked up Watson i thought this sounds good until a mate who watches a bit of the TAC cup said think of Jason Cloke with a booming kick, Marcus Davies, sort a poor decision maker. Easy to criticise i know but I don't reckon we have got bang for our buck with draft picks. Understand that not every pick is going to be a winner, but early picks especially second round we have usually got these chronically wrong - we have fared better with rookies at times.

Watto isn't a tweener like Jason Cloke.

Robinson, Garlett, Betts, Jamison and Jacobs were good late picks.

Fools judge Hampson as a forward when he's a ruck. Hine wanted Hammer.

Grigg was worth 19.

Misquided footy supporter logic says you want Talia because he's a tall. Good mail that Rendell would have gone for Lucas if we hadn't picked him. You'd be happier with Jetta, Menzel and Fyfe. Pittard is injured, but is a gun with skill and the right attitude. We still need small defenders. There were no real inside mids around at our pick 11 and 12.

Sounds like we have a great list..
And we always get our man before the next club gets him.
Is that how we draft???

Spies tell us someone else will get Bootsma Rowe Ratten (was gunna go for the job at melbourne he told us)... Hammer.. Tiller... Clinton Benjamin etc.. and we nab them????

Love your rationale...

But were bombing!!!!

So everything cant be perfect....

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Effes wrote:
George Stone must have pissed himself when he saw us going after Mclean whilst they got Kennedy for some late picks and Luke Parker at pick 40 in the 2010 draft.

George Stone must have been pissed after they recruited Mumford and Seaby in the one draft. Cost them Mitch Duncan. Don't why they get a tick for a player they overlooked for Jed Lamb.

Sydney's recruiting of untried talent was diabolical up until the 2009 draft. Veszpremi, Dan O'Keeffe and Lewis Johnston/e were all first round busts who were moved on.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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I think we should know by now that anything above pick 25'ish is largely hit and miss and you see that with all clubs.

Our recruiting past three years has been immaculate.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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I always thought Hughes said when drafting players that he would always take the best available at our pick. Maybe thats why we have so many players of similar type.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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mots wrote:
I always thought Hughes said when drafting players that he would always take the best available at our pick. Maybe thats why we have so many players of similar type.



Selecting the best available is one thing, but who determines the best available.

Is it just a matter of taking who the next number in Emma Quayles phantom draft (which looks like 90% of the phantom drafts) then why spend a squillion bucks on a recruiting team ? Just ask Emma to tell you.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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cimm1979 wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Austin Kennedy Jacobs Grigg - all finding a role at other clubs - all Hughes picks

I think development moreso an issue than recruitment


Maybe.

All related though isnt it. ?



Yes, it shows you what we really think of recruiting when we let Grigg go for a rustic type like Collins. I'm not critical of our recruiters judgement in isolation, I'm critical of our outlook and methods. We aren't interested in building a team or list, we are interested in supplementing our 'stars'.

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