...and you shit me to tears, but this place would suck if we all agreed with each other.

(but you still don't get it)

Your last line of your post was " at what cost to society", they are your words not mine.
If you wanted the club to consider the negative impact pokies have on a small proportion of society then they should have knocked back the offer from Bruce.
Membership revenue should grow by about 3 million dollars this year. I am basing that on 6000 new members at $400 a pop and then the Gold members like me who were held to ransom and forced to pay more money for the same seats. I am rapt that Bruce has done what he has done and that the club has accepted this gracious gift and will put it to good use.
You have an agenda.

I like Bruce's donation as well. He's a wealthy man, he wants to see the Blues succeed, he wants us to start eating into the debt, this was a way he could do it and at the same time, the club has some responsibility in managing the operational processes of those pokie clubs. No need to knock it back...but no need to accept it without recognising a responsibility that comes with it either.

So here's my agenda...The Club should - as part of the clubs' corporate social responsility strategy, do some work in the areas where we have taken over the licenses of those clubs e.g Hoppers Crossing and Laverton. After all - that's the deal we have with Visy. So if you view this and structure it similarly to what a sponsorship arrangement would read, then it would sit a lot comfortably with me and others who see these 260 pokie machines for what they are - a blight on society.

I realise more than most the good work the club does, some of it going completely unrecognised. But an initiative such as the aforementioned should receive PR. This shouldn't just be viewed by the clubs hierarchy as the get out of jail card that it is. It should come with some responsibility and it's not up to Mr Mathieson to implement that - that's not his business - but it should be core business practice of the Carlton Football Club. Otherwise - it's a little like accepting millions from Philip Morris.

I'd say it's MORE than a little like accepting millions from Philip Morris.

Anyway, couldn't agree more with the point of view that pokie revenue should be used as a lever to effect broader positive change at the club. I'd like to see it perceived not as a normal revenue stream, but one that can assist the club in building a strong and sustainable business, with any future pokies revenue icing on the cake.

Wouldn't it be a good thing if Carlton could be the first club to have a public social-responsibility program around its pokies? Other clubs would follow, and we'd be genuinely taking the lead on something. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think any AFL club has done this.

I know pokies are legal, and I know it's personal choice and so on, but they're clearly a source of harm to society and anyone accepting revenue from them has (IMO) an obligation to at the very least make an attempt to minimise such harm.

I suspect AFL clubs are happy for this to just continue being the elephant in the room; take the money and shut up about it. Because any such CSR program has the potential to shine a light on the club's involvement with pokies.

If any club does it first, I'm pretty sure it won't be us.

Well I am glad that you have spelt it out for us. I won't argue with it other than to say it is not a huge issue for me.
The venues that have those machines have legal and social responsibilites that they must adhere too but if you believe the club should also do something on top of that then so be it.
The AFL should stop having functions at Crown Casino.

Is that the same AFL that employs its current CEO who at one time when he was a teacher held a class for his pupils on how to place bets at the TAB???

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Most likely Agro.
It is a matter of where do you want to draw the line?

Preferably behind the current CEO of the AFL. I will even include a blindfold and cigarette at no charge.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Just to add further fuel to the fire in regards to revenue from poker machines...

I recently completed my RSG course (Responsible Service of Gambling) to go with my RSA and RSF certificates as I would like to obtain part-time work in hospitality.

One of the topics mentioned in the training is that the revenue or amount of money that passes through the poker machines is divided into thirds.

1/3 to the poker machine provider (tabcorp or tabaret?)
1/3 to the state government
1/3 to the venue operator (your local pub, club, etc.)

Now out of these allocations, 10% of the entire amount has to be paid to fund gambling awareness such as counselling, gamblers help and other services to help those affected. Immediately you would think that the government is paying for all of these services.

From what I was made aware - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - but the 10% comes out from the venue operators coffers... so theoretically, 33% to the provider, 33% to the state government and 23% to the venue.

With all that said though - clubs and pubs do extremely well out of any poker machine deal. One of the hotels down on the Peninsula in 1 financial year raked in approximately $11 million (and yes, after all the cuts were taken out for the provider, state government and gambling awareness).

Unfortunately pokies are still a major problem in society - much larger than the government would like you to believe and know. For me I know first hand and have heard the damage they cause to people's lives.

Regards, Shaun (Sticks1977)

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37°47'1.59"S - 144°57'43.30"E - Home

I agree we should be doing something positive to offset the damage pokies do.

We should do something that gets publicity - not just to get Carlton in the papers, but also to promote awareness of the issue & provide a positive example to others.

It may be tricky to do this in the areas where the pubs are located (ie would Rabid Geelong or Doggies supporting battlers appreciate a hand from Carlton?)

We should do this and we should do that.

Go to the footy and have a listen to the ground announcer, have a look at the scoreboard, bet on friggin this and bet on friggin that. Roobet, Demonbet, Watchmehumpyourbrotherbet, watch any sport on TV and it is loaded with betting shop advertisements and odds. Watch the English Soccer and half the teams major sponsor is some sort of betting agency. Listen to the footy on the radio full of betting.

Were do you want to draw the line?

Gambling has gotten totally out of hand in Australia today (IMO).

FFS, even ABC Radio had to be pulled up last year, because their callers kept talking about odds in-game. It's so insidious they didn't even really know they were doing it.

From nothing a decade ago, we've normalised betting to the point where your bloody kids are made to feel like it's a completely natural part of enjoying the footy.

So you draw the line by reigning in sports betting marketing.

And you draw the line by limiting poker machine numbers, and hourly limits.

This is the role of Government. But without public pressure, they won't do a thing.

And a club like Carlton can draw the line by at least acknowledging that they strive to NOT be part of the problem. They could do this with other sporting clubs who own pokies, just like they do it with anti-racisim and anti-violence campaigns. At the very least, by seeking out ways to do more than the legislated 'harm minimisation' techniques at their own clubs. Dunno. But there's ways, where they can still earn a motza, but still look themselves in the mirror in the morning.

But... why would they? After all, who are the chief beneficiaries of the huge amount of money flowing into and out of clubs now?

It's not you or me. It's:

The AFL Executive.
Executive management of the clubs. Ie, Greg Swann, Gary Pert, et al. They earn a bloody good living.
The huge numbers of coaches and footy dept. employees.
The huge number of media reps.
The media outlets.

The entire AFL organism benefits from all this money, and I don't see a whole lot happening to even remotely threaten a dollar of that.

If I was to buy a Carlton membership I would want enough transparency from the club to know that gaming revenue is being directly used to assist the funding of community programs. That request is likely to be laughed at, but again - we're in 2012 - it's high time clubs started to view members as shareholders and not live in a bubble and be over-protective of where monies are distributed.

I understand many of you just want to go to the footy, just want your club to be profitable and competitive every year, but I'm not alone in wanting a little bit more than that.

The club is looking at revenue retained after tax rising to $13.6 million post-2012....or revenue growth of 436% ...So I would implore the President, Board, staff and members not to tie in pleading for supporters to buy a membership with paying off a massive debt.

I would implore them to tie it in with getting bigger membership numbers than Hawthorn, Essendon* and Richmond.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

For the purpose of bragging rights? meh...

Gambling is filling the governments coffers won't happen.

Do you want the whole lot to go to funding community programs or can the club keep some? You have a $13.6 million cake tell me the % split and I will tell you whether they will laugh.

I can really see all the non carlton people getting on board, 30 years or 300 years, won't make a difference.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Its obvious that you dont see the value here KingKerna- so its probably no use explaining it to you, but here goes.

The importance of us establishing a team/brand in the second tier competition in Victoria is vitally important.

The flow on benefits are also enormous. For example the FOXTEL Cup (you may pooh pooh this now) but in a few years the "Champions League Concept" for all the second tier football competitions will be grow in importance and for us to have a foothold in this is important.

Corporate sponsorship will flow on from this and there are all sorts of businesses in the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne who will jump on board for national exposure (but not national exposure prices) - so thats a vital area for us to get a partnerships with (Navy Blue ones ).

Then there is the schools/local clubs linkage - when the AFL/VFL send out players to clubs and schools - they will send out Carlton/Northern Blue players to Northern Suburbs schools and clubs. Dont underestimate the power of a young kid rubbing shoulders with a player, they may not change allegiances first time around - but if we keep sending "Navy Blue" players out to these clubs and schools allegiances will change over time. How many stories do we see on TC about our kids not barracking for Carlton for one reason or another (not mine in any case ).

As I said before its a 2 generation (30 year project) and we have to do it properly - so this is not a bad place to invest pokie money.

I think the first mistake we have made is actually putting the Carlton Logo on the new "Northern Blue" Jumper - Navy Blue is fine but it will probably rub a few peoples noses the wrong way to have our logo on the jumper first season - probably around season 3 or 4 would have been better timing.

In anycase we wont be around in 300 years to see the results - but in 2042 in I will be an old codger of 80 so maybe we can discuss the results over a beer at the nursing home.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Before any high moral grounds are taken about anything, how about each person does a review of their own worldly possessions and see where that leaves them and their soap box.

Own an Iphone or an 'I' anything.
Own any brand name sporting apparel.
Own anything that is possibly made in sweat shops in 3rd would countries just so we feel techno savvy and cut a fine figure.

Anyone drink alcohol that has caused the decline of many cultures.
Anyone drive above the speed limit and break road rules
Anyone committed adultery
Anyone broken any of those pesky 10 commandments lately.
Anyone smoke any of those 'slightly' different but currently legal 'cannabis like' substances from New Zealand.

There are many things I find don't suit my moral agenda but if the Government says it is all perfectly legal, who am I to carry on.

Glasses house are easily shattered.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”