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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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FFS

All we are saying:

is give players a reasoned and well thought out rational heartfelt informed chance.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Denis Pagan (now dont turn off because I mentioned his name) during his year coaching the Northern Knights had this conversation with a young gun I know personally.

Kid. "Dennis I want you to give me a chance in the midfield. I have won 5 best and fairests in my junior league as a midfielder, and you're playing me in the back pocket. This is not my position".

Pagan. "Son, every kid in this team has won five best and fairests as a gun midfielder, and you'll play where you're told. Junior players, even elite juniors, need to develop their skills for the AFL by learning how to play in a variety of positions. You need to develop your defensive game, your offensive game, your running game, your marking and spoiling game, your goalkicking game, your run off game, your tagging game. Show me you can play and I'll play you everywhere"

Kid. (sulking). OK. And under his breath ("F#@%ING C##T")

Collingwood is the team who have been ahead of the game in developing young draftees. They havent had any top draft picks for a number of years (excluding Thomas and Pendlebury and Fraser some years before) but they seen to get very good results from low picks. I think their separate and autonomous junior development program run by Mark Richardson is outstanding and a model worth replicating.

Comments from insiders about Carlton's junior development program would be worth hearing. ?Cazz


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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jimmae wrote:
blue4 wrote:
If they're not AFL standard from a young age - technique, positioning, communication, teamwork, anticipation, decisions, bravery, concentration, agility, decisions & aggression is wht I look at aplyer when I am watching footy he shouldnt be recruited. How many players fulfill the above categries? probably not many and there are other attributes I'd like to include composure, kicking, first time pick up, staying on feet and much more.

On a scale of 20 if the don'y reach if they dont reach 10/20 at least 50% of attributes dont recruit them.

Players like Jamo, Betts, Joseph has most boxes ticked.

You're taking the game engine of Football Manager and using it as your basis for player acquisition and development??? :lol:

By all means take something from that game as part of your philosophy on sport (because it is THE best sports management game on the planet), but don't just come on here, spout off about what you know or think should be done when all you're doing is lifting the intellectual property of a computer game company.

And do not even begin to try and tell me you aren't; that is almost to the letter. :lol:

*Cups ear*

Hello?

Exhibit A:

Image

and to cover for 'communication', exhibit B:

Image

So kicking would be passing, crossing, finishing & long shots; staying on feet would be balance (also a preferred move called 'Does not dive into tackles'); first time pick up would be first touch?

As for the much more - well - take your pick. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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RickJ wrote:

Comments from insiders about Carlton's junior development program would be worth hearing. ?Cazz


No idea. Not involved. After draft day, not my problem :wink:

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Gilly34 wrote:
blueman wrote:
There is evidence that Men are genetically predisposed to be worse at multitasking that women.

So a complex work environment might not necessarily bring the best out of young players.

Some young players may do better by at least starting off with more straightforward and simpler structures to their working environment.


What evidence????

Technically speaking there is no such thing as multi-tasking, it is merely re-directing attention :smile:


Haven't u ever done the rub your tummy and pat your head thing :confused:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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get rid of the hacks wrote:
Gilly34 wrote:
blueman wrote:
There is evidence that Men are genetically predisposed to be worse at multitasking that women.

So a complex work environment might not necessarily bring the best out of young players.

Some young players may do better by at least starting off with more straightforward and simpler structures to their working environment.


What evidence????

Technically speaking there is no such thing as multi-tasking, it is merely re-directing attention :smile:


Haven't u ever done the rub your tummy and pat your head thing :confused:


There's always one in every crowd :razz:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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verbs wrote:
FFS

All we are saying:

is give players a reasoned and well thought out rational heartfelt informed chance.


I agree...at the very least the same amount of time given the coach.... :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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dannyboy wrote:
my answer would be no - they should be drafted as 21 year olds - unfortunately that's not the system.


Bring in zoning and have an under 18 and reserve competition run by clubs where kids are trained by clubs.

Get rid of drafting immediately because it's a joke on all levels and so American.

All clubs should get an equal cut of television rights and distribute evenly for transfer fees.

There should be mid week cup competitions where under 21s are encouraged to play and prize money is involved.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:27 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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Further there should be a 20 club competition with League 1 & League 2 and introduce a promotion/demotion system where each club plays all clubs twice in a season to make it a pure competition.

In its current format its such a joke.

League 1

Adelaide
Brisbane
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon*
Geelong
Hawthorn
Port
Sydney
West Coast


League 2

Melbourne
Richmond
Fremantle
St Kilda
Kangaroos
GWS
Gold Coast
Bulldogs
Tasmania
Darwin

Open up the market and give clubs in League 2 to get big bucks through transfer fees via trading players from their zone or approach players on pre agreed contracts in other zones. Outgoings in League 2 [salaries] should be vastly less.


Last edited by blue4 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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blue4 wrote:
Bring in zoning and have an under 18 and reserve competition run by clubs where kids are trained by clubs.


Zoning didn't work. It did for Carlton (primarily due to the Bendigo region), but not for other sides. Clubs can't afford to run a thirds let alone a seconds outfit.

blue4 wrote:
Get rid of drafting immediately because it's a joke on all levels and so American.


Getting rid of the draft would mean that clubs obtain young players through purchase (what Carlton successfully did for years if you remember?) or by developing youth players through their own academies (see above re: affordability) - and provides no parity between teams which is why the draft was introduced.

blue4 wrote:
All clubs should get an equal cut of television rights and distribute evenly for transfer fees.


All clubs do get an even cut of TV rights.

blue4 wrote:
There should be mid week cup competitions where under 21s are encouraged to play and prize money is involved.


Hmmm...if the draft is too American (started in 1935 btw) wouldn't this be too English? So ... a) where's the money coming from? b) How would this increase their skill level as opposed to say, the VFL?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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blue4 wrote:
Further there should be a 20 club competition with League 1 & League 2 and introduce a promotion/demotion system where each club plays all clubs twice in a season to make it a pure competition.

In its current format its such a joke.


Are you English?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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I am from the Alpines in Europe so its fair to think the American system is not for the AFL.

Open up the market baby. It's currently jailed and being choked by bureaucracy.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:08 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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blue4 wrote:
I am from the Alpines in Europe so its fair to think the American system is not for the AFL.

Open up the market baby. It's currently jailed and being choked by bureaucracy.


That makes no sense


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:42 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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blue4 wrote:
If they're not AFL standard from a young age - technique, positioning, communication, teamwork, anticipation, decisions, bravery, concentration, agility, decisions & aggression is wht I look at aplyer when I am watching footy he shouldnt be recruited. How many players fulfill the above categries? probably not many and there are other attributes I'd like to include composure, kicking, first time pick up, staying on feet and much more.

On a scale of 20 if the don'y reach if they dont reach 10/20 at least 50% of attributes dont recruit them.

Players like Jamo, Betts, Joseph has most boxes ticked.


Let me track this and forgive me because I'm a bit slow with foreign languages. Are you saying that we shouldn't recruit many players? Because that's what it looks like you're saying.

And what's the young age at which these kids need to be AFL standard for you to want to recruit them? Aside from NicNat and a few other exceptional talents, I reckon NO-ONE fits your criteria, so we'd end up having lists of er.. 1 or 2 players.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Gilly34 wrote:
blueman wrote:
There is evidence that Men are genetically predisposed to be worse at multitasking that women.

So a complex work environment might not necessarily bring the best out of young players.

Some young players may do better by at least starting off with more straightforward and simpler structures to their working environment.


What evidence????

Technically speaking there is no such thing as multi-tasking, it is merely re-directing attention :smile:


Women multi-task because they have one task going but start another before the first has been completed. Men tend to do their tasks consecutively so they start one, finish it, then move to the next. Single-tasking.

There is evidence that the corpus-callosum on average is larger in a girls brain than a boys. The corpus-callosum being the white matter that allows the two hemispheres of the brain to communicate. This is said to result in the Female Brain being Physically more Symmetrical than a Man's. In functional MRI's, in some cases where something is shown or thought about, both sides of a woman's brain will fire but only one in a Man's.

There are many differences between our brains.....It's so interesting. What it comes down to, If I were to summarise my own beliefs on it I would say that men are the specialists and women the generalists, both have great advantages and neither better than the other. :smile:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Actually the human brain demonstrates an immense amount of plasticity. I'd suggest the nurture side of things dictates many of the differences we currently observe, which is what will make the next century or so quite exciting in terms of studying human development, as cultural expectations of men & women continue to break down with men accepting some of the responsibilities of traditional female roles and vice versa.

But that's just my opinion. ;)

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20 ways to see the world,
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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jimmae wrote:
Actually the human brain demonstrates an immense amount of plasticity. I'd suggest the nurture side of things dictates many of the differences we currently observe, which is what will make the next century or so quite exciting in terms of studying human development, as cultural expectations of men & women continue to break down with men accepting some of the responsibilities of traditional female roles and vice versa.

But that's just my opinion. ;)


So you think that the gender specific way we're brought up and taught makes the differences in brains and not the other way around?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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TheBluesMuse wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Actually the human brain demonstrates an immense amount of plasticity. I'd suggest the nurture side of things dictates many of the differences we currently observe, which is what will make the next century or so quite exciting in terms of studying human development, as cultural expectations of men & women continue to break down with men accepting some of the responsibilities of traditional female roles and vice versa.

But that's just my opinion. ;)


So you think that the gender specific way we're brought up and taught makes the differences in brains and not the other way around?

Generally speaking? More or less, assuming all the wires are working well enough up there. There's pre-disposition, then there's what you're taught to do, and how you choose to interact beyond that. Neural pathways develop accordingly.

BTW, we're officially killing this thread.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:01 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Quote:
Women multi-task because they have one task going but start another before the first has been completed. Men tend to do their tasks consecutively so they start one, finish it, then move to the next. Single-tasking.


I'm not sure where you will find empirical support for this one. Are you telling me that the blokes in operational roles in a Black Saturday for example don't have multiple goals and tasks to achieve?. Neuropsych bases for gender differences aside, my point still stands. Cognitively speaking there is no such thing as 'multi-tasking', it is merely re-directing attention.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:10 am 
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Bruce Doull
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programmatic specificity

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Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


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