If you're suggesting playing Andrew Walker on McLeod was a mistake I reckon you're on drugs. That was the best game I've seen from Walker and I think he would have learnt a lot more from that game than he did by freewheeling in his debut game picking up 26 disposals.

It's these sort of tasks that will take a raw talent and turn him into a footballer. It might not excite the fans in the same way but it's a whole lot more productive in terms of development.

Well i think Denis should have won the Wizzard Cup and announced and celebrated it with "WE NEED PICKS!!!!!" before the season had even started....

Look, you give it a go with what you have.
Its doubtful this group of core players are what we need to take us 'there'.
so you start again and you develop the next group by fast tracking them to responsibility. leadership and galvanise them. This ultimately costs you games in the short term... long term you pick up even better kids with leadership skills that can be further developed for the enhancement of this club and more brilliance.You guys seriously dont think we can get 'there' with what we have do you?
'There' is not a middle of the road club... 'there' is a flag inside ten years.. or a REAL window of opportunity to atleast contest for it.

Knackers.. i know some of you dont like Denis.. he is your false Messiah.. he didnt deliver a premiership in his forst three years did he???
We had this wicked list and a fantstic environment for him to work in.

As for Surrey???Listen to Surrey... he knows.. 'STUFF....... *COUGH* ALL'!!!

Mate i dont know how Alicia Silverstone was cast in 'Clueless' should have been Surrey for sure...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Read knackers post a couple of time synbad & can't seem to locate where he stated that he didn't like Dennis or call him a messiah........but anyway, lets not let that get in the way of bagging someone who may have a different opinion than yours.

You're not onto anything here GWS. Scottopee is right

I listen to every post-match conference religiously because it's the best way of gauging a coach's thoughts.

Pagan has siad the same line regarding draft picks since his first post-match press conference at the club, and he often says it without a journo prompting him with a question. It goes like this:

Dennis: "Look, um, I say this often, no-one will ever know how much those draft penalties hurt the Carlton Footy Club. All we can do is try to gather the right people and move forward............(blah blah)...."

He says it after nearly every loss and you're not right in reading into it.

_________________
They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

[quote Synbad]
Knackers.. i know some of you dont like Denis.. he is your false Messiah.. he didnt deliver a premiership in his forst three years did he???
We had this wicked list and a fantstic environment for him to work in.

How long will it be then Synbad give us all a time frame to work within
When will we make the 8 ????
When will we be top 4 ????
when will we win a flag????
How long do you give Denis 5,10 or 15 years

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Sure, but Denis has never ever said "give a couple of draft picks and l'll give you attractive football". No Denis appears to have resigned himself to the fact that you just cannot beat class in the end.

I guess I'm not the only one who must have completely misread the situation.

I didn't say he didn't comment on them last year. I said his attitude to them (publicly at least) seems to be different. As maxy said - there's no air of defiance and I specifically remember Denis stating last year in regards to the picks that he didn't worry about things he couldn't control.

I also said,



Coincidence or not, I think his public statements have changed somewhat.

You obviously don't listen to his public statements much. I listen to every interview he has that is accessible on the net.
He trots out the same line about the picks after every single disheartening loss - he was doing it in 2003 and after all of our 100 point losses in 2004.

He has always said that we are "lacking in talent" (says it after every loss, and this equates to the "give me draft picks" comment. Read - "give me talent")

Of course, Dennis' tone sounds more despondent because we've had X losses in a row and you can;t expect his tone to be comparable to when we were winning a few in the Wz and last year. BUT -

essentially, the content and meaning of his comments has not changed one iota. It's been the same for 2 and a half years now.

_________________
They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

There's a lot of people with a lot to lose at Carlton, players adminstrators and particularly DP. I don't think he can afford another year like 03 or many more thrashings. We don't have the cattle, but that has rarely saved coaches of sides that have played terribly over several years. He's got 2 or is it 3 more seasons and he'll be doing everything to get us into the 8 then because if we haven't made considerable progress his time will be up (whether that's fair or not) and his reputation may get a revisionist slant focussing much more on the Carey factor as the prime reason for success and the Roos 'only' getting 2 flags after apearing in 6 or 7 prelims (and there'll be enemies at North who will happily push that line).

None of this is fair but it is how footy goes. The prime reason the Hawks and the Tiges have improved this year is not because of Deledio and Tambling, or Roughead and Franklin, but because of new coaches getting the best out of the whole list. Remains to be seen how long that will last. We have a shocking list, and the draft penalties have really hurt, but our main problem is that the drafting from 96-99 have left us with few quality 23-28year olds.

The 'culture' thing is important too I think, particularly within the team. Hard for a coach who has presided over many losses and floggings to get players up. A coach without DPs track record would be finished at Carlton after this season with the same record, again not necessarily deservedly but that's what happens at unsuccessfull footy clubs. Testing times for Dennis, lets see how he handles it.

No, it's a waste. How can 6 possesions, less than half than that of your opponent, be a good result? Look, I don't dispute the matchup, on paper is sounds exciting. Was it? I just don't like watching the limited 'talent' we have sqaundered in purely 'negating' roles. How's Trent Sporn travelling these days? Look, I have no doubt that Andrew Walker would have learnt from the experience, but I'm sure he would have learnt just as much playing an attacking role ON McLeod.

Sorry, I realise that I've taken this off topic, but given the reference to my 'drug taking', I thought I deserve some right of reply. Happy to take up this discussion in a more appropriate forum.

_________________
Patrick Smith - Just another reason to HATE Essendon*!

McLeod can usually get double that and hurt you every time.

McLeod rarely damaged us - it was Goodwin who did the damage.

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Hey the reason why people might come to a conclusion about you tripping on abit of acid is because McLeod destroyed StKilda last week with over 30 disposals.
So 6 possies by Walker and keeping McLeod (who is a 2 times Norm Smith medallist and an absolute game breaking champion to a non effectual role is a fantastic result.
Unless you read the paper and go straight to the stats section... like a couple of others in this place.
Whats the more appropriate forum you want to move this discussion to anyway??

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

that really is the dumbest, most naive, most ridiculous , stupid, insipid, thoughtless, no idea, trippy bunch of questions ever put on a board in the history of sports boards.....

Do you expect a dumb, naive, ridiclous, stuppid, insipid, thoughtless, no idea, trippy bunch of answers back????

Boy... you really have to wonder about some people......

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

And who was on Goodwin? Oh thats right that bloke who is less responsible for the midfields poor accountability! Stevens

Once again Clem how is Kouta going?

IIRC, I think Stevo was on Ricciuto not Goodwin (however I only saw the first half of the game).

knackers, it seems by reading between the lines that you prefer not to bottom out. To go by the stats to see how many clubs have won premierships by finishing last a few years before is irrelevant. We need players that are committed in doing the hard yards and these days the leadership group are either past it, not skilful enough or very selfish to play AFL today. It would be helpful if we do bottom out these and get some real exciting players from this year's national and pre-season drafts so that three or four years down the track they will form part of the leadership that will by that time include, Stevens, Thornton, Waite.
get that through your head

Hahahahahahaha

"Less responsible" doesn't mean total irresponsibility does it?

My friend Kouta did well on Sunday. Finally showing some leadership.

And your point Scott?

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky