The biggest con will be Waite's loss as we have nobody else on the list that has his versatility.

This injury also exposes our complete lack of depth...i.e. depth of players who can actually play at AFL (not VFL) standard.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

PRO
Brown-Cant understand why a number of folks on here dont rate him.
Kreuzer
Bower
Joseph
Yarran showed glimpes of class vision and disposal
Another game in the bank for Robbo and Austin

CON
Obvious.

We ask these questions every week Livo.

How could the match committee not even look like they're trying to solve them??? The kickout issue has existed for 5 weeks now!

I reckon they sit in match committee watching the 95 Granny replay. Ratts knows the commentary off by heart. Harvey sits in the corner twiddling his thumbs

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

Con:

Probably need some work on our kick-ins. Just a thought.

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The AFL equalisation policy (designed with StKilda firmly in mind) is the only reason they exist.

You aren't? Does it?

That depends where you look. More potential champs yes but far less 'team balance' and depth.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

PROS

Bower, Brown, Kroooz.

CONS

Ratten (or whoever is calling the shots in the box)
Russell
Wiggo (formerly known as The Chief)
Gibbs (been down for a month, yep he's only 19 but <<< Selwood at this stage)
Fev
Waitey's Knee

Pafloyul is spot on. Have a look at the age and experience of the two sides as an immediate guide. We don't have much age or experience in guys like Joseph, Hampson, Armfield, Yarran, Browne, Robinson, and Austin. That's one third of our team which do not have the bodies or the experience to work their way out of trouble against a side like Adelaide. Yeah we could play Cloke, Houlihan, Setanta, Bannister, and Fisher and we'd probably go better... hell we might even have won the match. But where are those guys taking us overall compared to the aforementioned seven? Our list doesn't cr@p on theirs at all... it may do eventually, but the key to that will be to continue to show faith in the kids who got a game today, even though they are probably holding us back just for the moment.

I said it earlier in this thread - what the MC are saving us from is a 'glorious' 2004-type finish where we come 6-10, but with one third of the list who aren't a solid part of our future. Today's game was actually far brighter than it first seems (and yes, there were many, many errors included)

Agreed - our list is uneven. We haven't had the draft to ourselves in recent years either.

Agree. We need to look at others besides Judd-Gibbs-Murphy-Kreuzer. They have quite a lot of depth. Many midfield runners, dynamic forward line with Porp and Tippett. Very good defence. They haven't had the luxury of very early picks but they've done well with later picks. Porp was a late pick, Tippett in the 30s, Vince in the 30s, MacKay in the 50s.

You've mentioned it a few times Paf but it seems many are giving predictions about where we'll finish when they don't have much knowledge about the opposition.

Surely if you are going to predict where your own team is going to finish you have to have a closer look at the opposition, gameplan/style, list structure and coach.

Adelaide are a better team than most give credit for, however it doesn't excuse us not turning up in the first half.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Pros:
Kreuzer
Hampson starting to hold a mark or two
Bower
Some of Austin's stuff
Robinson's attack on the footy
Yarran's couple of nice kicks to position

Cons:
Gameplan seems to have changed from skill-based to handball-happy
Kickouts have been a weakness for several years
We allow teams too much lattitude through the midfield and don't man up when they are playing possession footy.
Not having players in the team who can make space.
Only a few players seemed to want it.
Fev's goal kicking is getting worse every week
People here thinking that by playing kids and losing we will somehow get enough points to play finals

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

If Hampson's a con he must have robbed a bank.

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"I had to eat"

Pro:
Bird Bower
Krooz
Stevo

Con:
RATTEN!!!

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C'mon Blueboys!

Pros:

1. These interstate games are highlighting players who won't take us to No 17 any time soon. Hads (was a fan, disappointing), Wiggo, JR etc. When will the MC notice?

2. Browne - astonished at the negativity about his game. Gives a stuff, smart player. Plenty worse than him out there. Keep playing him, he belongs. Ditto Army, not quite so assured but he takes the game on and means it.

3. Waite injury will most likely give Carlos an extended run - we need to find out where he's at, NOW.

4. Grigga and Tex one game closer to coming back. Grigga for Hadley a no brainer.


Cons:

1. Gibbs "let's make them believe it's their day" kick into the man for Crows first goal. Put him in the guts, get him out of third gear!! Does Joel Sellwood do stuff like that? Give me some intensity, Bryce.

2. First quarter "empty forward line" structure kicking with the wind. WTF? Paganesque coaching, just appalling. Talk about sending all the wrong signals to the playing group. What, were we $8 underdogs trying to stop a blow out or something? Someone tell me, what was the MC thinking!

3. All the "hype" around our team is firing up our opposition. We have started favourite virtually EVERY game we've played this year. Teams are lifting when playing us and we can't deal with it. What Crows team turned up @ AAMI two weeks ago v Doggies?

Stupid club still living in the eighties trying to come across as a professional club. Professional my big horses........

Pros

Bower-getting better each week
Stevens
Kruezer (again)
Browne -made a few mistakes but has a go
Murphy -lifted in the 2nd half

Cons

Where do i start

wiggins
Armfield-disposals shocking
Betts-went missing all day
Fev-not sure what is wrong with him
Gibbs
Waite-doesnt sound good
Ratten-dont understand his game plan

Sad bloody day. The optimist in me says Waite has strained his knee and may miss a week ....... please don't let it be an ACL.

Pros
Kruz
Bower
Stevo
special mention to Browne for trying

Cons
Just goes to show the others have no clue if Judd is covered/smothered/taken out of the game etc
Hadley ..... thought you were going to be a plus for us but that isn't the case
Chief .... disappointed with you mate. Going, going, gon...........
Waite injury
FFS guys run and kick long to position ....frustrating to watch

We need to use Collingwood's travel agent. Appears these guys don't mind playing interstate!!!

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"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz

Pros:
The Backline - Given the amount of time that the ball went into the crows forward line without any pressure whatsoever from our midfield I think that our backs did a wonderful job today. Adding to that, I think that personally Bower has had a stellar month of football and is really looking like he belongs in the AFL now. Austin is getting there, Jamo looks good and it takes the pressure off of blokes like thornton (who I also think is having a good month of footy).

Our third quarter - makes you wonder why they did not do that all day. we looked really good in the third and played like we really wanted it. I reckon two more goals would have put us right back in the match. Not that we even deserved to be anywhere even close at that point.

Cons:
Forward line in the first half: Not sure what the idea of having a coleman medalist running up on the wing is when you're kicking with the aid of a three goal breeze. I would have thought swift ball movement to a leading forward would have been the order of the day in the first, but we got nothing if fev is on the wing.

Gibbs had a really bad game. Judd had a really bad game. Hadley looks pretty lost at the moment. Wiggins provided nothing. Russel had a bad game.

We have to read how the sky has fallen all week.

General observations:
I know that many people on here think that Armfield's disposal is poor, but his run and carry was really good today, he lacked a lot of support and it is hard to be precise by foot when the wind is blustery. Neither side showed any real precision by foot. It was pretty much a scrappy contest that the crows dominated by being harder at the footy.

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

Bower Kreizer Pros
Waite Cons

Armfield is trying to make things happen... and cos there are NO STRUCTURES and GAMEPLAN... nothings working... theyre not working for Armfield ... theyre not working for Fev .. theyre not working for Gibbs.. Theyre not working for Judd...

When you dont know what the hell youre supposed to be doing .. youre going to look terrible....
Armfeld is at least proactive... and he shouldnt be punished for trying to do stuff others cant or wont.. or we dont have the structures set up for things to be more fluid.

Alot of people fumbled.. alot of people chose wrong options... thats the gameplans fault.. the structures.. the set ups and the things you have been practising ... when theyre coming unsutck..and players have little belief in the system.. theyre going to look terrible.

Sure we can we arrange the deck chairs of the Titanic..
We can drop Armfield and bring in Bannister.. or whatever... but the underlying SYSTEM is [REDACTED].. and its a massive black hole thats going to swallow up alot of players .. and thats what needs to be addressed first...

Fev was a gun forward.. and we have been blaming him for being a gun forward... and we dont want him to be a gun forward... so now were close to having no gun forward....

You have fev being a gun forward and you compliment him with structures sety ups and systems to have others involved too.. you dont crastrate him from doing what hes best at...

Is the coach a numbnut or what???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

You make a really good point, we have (or had) one of the great full forwards in our team and we are now hell bent on not kicking the ball to him. Why not play to our strengths?

Pro; I have picked 5 out of 5 so far

synbad is 100% right !

people, when will you realise this is not about our list, the quality or experience of the opposition, or our relative lack of experience ???

this is about the fact that no matter who is currently wearing the navy blue is being "instructed" (and I use this term very loosely) to play a brand of football that is not conducive to winning football games !!!!

WE NEED A COACH AND A GAME PLAN that the players can believe in, that will give you the best chance of winning football games and provide structure and direction to allow even average players to resemble good ordinary footballers (as opposed to deers in headlights ie. armfield !)