So in the end, what we're really saying, is that Richmond got Judd after all.

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In the lead up to the 2006 draft there was the usual discussion here at TC as to who we should take. Gibbs was arguably the best available. The question as to what constitutes 'best' was debatable. Same happened in 2007 draft with Kreuzer and Cotchin.

Gibbs was not the best available ruckman at the time, Leuenberger was. Gibbs was not the best available KP either. Carlton had needs on every line, and after stacking on talls in our first normal draft in 2005 (an obvious problem for us in the Pagan era with the draft penalties) with Hartlett, Kennedy, Bower, Edwards and Flint, in 2006 we still had holes in the midfield and ruck (hoping that the 2005 and 2006 talls would serve us well in the future).

We took Gibbs, the best player and best midfielder, instead of Leuenberger, but also picked a few ruckmen, Ackland and Cloke for the short term (really more KP players) and a genuine 200cm ruckman in Hampson (and Jacobs). We also added more KP size players with Jamison, Austin and Aisake. Ruck was still a big hole for us, as was proven in the next 2 years.

One of the arguments for Gibbs was that with a bit of luck (Pick 1 in the next draft in 2007) there was an outstanding ruckman named Kreuzer we may have a chance of picking up who was more outstanding than Leuenberger and in fact any ruckman to be selected in the draft, who, as it turned out, dominated the TAC the year we got him, in the ruck, in the air and on the ground; effectively played like another midfielder ala Cox.

WE got lucky with pick 1 in 2007, despite not ending on the bottom of the ladder. We were in the box seat to select the best available player and we took Kreuzer; every team would have. His type is a once in a generation player.

With Kreuzer, we not only got the best available, but we also got a Cox type player who in effect gives us an additional running midfielder, and KP if needed. Furthermore, we had someone who was to fill our biggest hole moving forward; ruck. Tiger had the same need, and Cotchin couldn't fill that for them or us.

Cotchin will be a fantastic midfielder, as will the 3 (2 x number 1 picks and 1 x number 2 pick) midfielders we had already picked up prior to the 2007 draft (Walker, Murphy, Gibbs).

We got the best available and filled our biggest need at the time. So we really couldn't be happier with our luck, not even today.

We got a once in a generation player. Picking Kreuzer at No 1 was a no brainer for CFC. I'm sure the Tigers would have liked the luxury of picking the Kreuzer having ended the 2007 season at the bottom of the ladder. It wasn't to be and my heart bleeds for the Tigers......not!

You can't compare Kreuzer and Cotchin; different players. One is a rare gem, the other we have in abundance because they pop up every year.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

And Cotch will have one very comfortable box seat.

Don't underestimate the value of the box seat, it serves the Tigers well !!!!!!!!!!

[quote="Jarusa"]Would have been great to get both players in the one package.

Krotchin would be an awesome player, and smooth with the ladies.[/quote]

Trent "The Dominator" Cotchin

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Cotchin's got a few at Punt Rd to compete with too.......Cousins for instance.

Picking Kreuzer was a no brainer.

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[quote="bondiblue"]In the lead up to the 2006 draft there was the usual discussion here at TC as to who we should take. Gibbs was arguably the best available. The question as to what constitutes 'best' was debatable. Same happened in 2007 draft with Kreuzer and Cotchin.

Gibbs was not the best available ruckman at the time, Leuenberger was. Gibbs was not the best available KP either. Carlton had needs on every line, and after stacking on talls in our first normal draft in 2005 (an obvious problem for us in the Pagan era with the draft penalties) with Hartlett, Kennedy, Bower, Edwards and Flint, in 2006 we still had holes in the midfield and ruck (hoping that the 2005 and 2006 talls would serve us well in the future).

We took Gibbs, the best player and best midfielder, instead of Leuenberger, but also picked a few ruckmen, Ackland and Cloke for the short term (really more KP players) and a genuine 200cm ruckman in Hampson (and Jacobs). We also added more KP size players with Jamison, Austin and Aisake. Ruck was still a big hole for us, as was proven in the next 2 years.

One of the arguments for Gibbs was that with a bit of luck (Pick 1 in the next draft in 2007) there was an outstanding ruckman named Kreuzer we may have a chance of picking up who was more outstanding than Leuenberger and in fact any ruckman to be selected in the draft, who, as it turned out, dominated the TAC the year we got him, in the ruck, in the air and on the ground; effectively played like another midfielder ala Cox.


WE got lucky with pick 1 in 2007, despite not ending on the bottom of the ladder. We were in the box seat to select the best available player and we took Kreuzer; every team would have. His type is a once in a generation player.

With Kreuzer, we not only got the best available, but we also got a Cox type player who in effect gives us an additional running midfielder, and KP if needed. Furthermore, we had someone who was to fill our biggest hole moving forward; ruck. Tiger had the same need, and Cotchin couldn't fill that for them or us.

Cotchin will be a fantastic midfielder, as will the 3 (2 x number 1 picks and 1 x number 2 pick) midfielders we had already picked up prior to the 2007 draft (Walker, Murphy, Gibbs).

We got the best available and filled our biggest need at the time. So we really couldn't be happier with our luck, not even today.

We got a once in a generation player. Picking Kreuzer at No 1 was a no brainer for CFC. I'm sure the Tigers would have liked the luxury of picking the Kreuzer having ended the 2007 season at the bottom of the ladder. It wasn't to be and my heart bleeds for the Tigers......not!

You can't compare Kreuzer and Cotchin; different players. One is a rare gem, the other we have in abundance because they pop up every year.

[Worth noting that in the first 30 odd players in that draft, about 5 were born in 1989, whilst the typical draftee was born in 1988. Two of the five were Gibbs and Austin. Gibbs is nearly a year younger than Selwood, and those are the two stand outs from that year.
/quote]

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Get comfortable being uncomfortable

He also said, "there's no point going where the ball ain't."
OK he wasn't the best public speaker in the team, even though the competition was pretty ordinary (Lou and Bob) but he was fun to listen to and I shudder to think what he would be saying about the metrosexuals we have playing today, especially after reading that Ben Cousins didn't have a single hair on his body 3mm long.
Maybe:
"Jeez, they could've taken a hundred year's worth of samples from Bob Skilton's back!"

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I'm not saying anything in case I say something.

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Winston Churchill

..lookit, no-one wants to miss out on a player like Judd.. ..but as great as he is, he's still only midway thru his career, and how much of his brilliant work came at the hands of Cox.. ..like others have said, especially over the last decade and the way the sport is improving every year.. ..you'll get one or two star midfilders out of near every draft.. ..it's the KPP's that are uncommon, as for rucks like Cox and hopefully the Krooz is of the same kind.. ..they're rare.. ..plus, after picking up murph and gibbs over the prev 2 yrs and trading in judd.. ..i think the brain trusts had the midfield covered for that particular first round draft....

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Jack Dyer also said that Justin Madden was like a "giant triantelope"

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My mate's a Richmond supporter and all he can mutter with a big smile on his face is " Cotchin, Cotchin, Cotchin " But when I say " Yeh but he plays for Richmond " He shuts up

In all seriousness though, I think they'll both be great players, unfortunately Cotchin wont be as good as Richmond supporters hope he'll be only because they have placed him so high up on a pedestal that, no matter what level he reaches, it wont be good enough for them. Remember it took them until 2008 to realize that Richardson is champ

Anyone that doubts Kruezer ( and they shouldn't mind you ) just take another look at the you tube video on page 1 of this thread. Very impressive especially those center clearance's.

Talls very, very rarely have any impact in their first year, and Kreuz had plenty of impact, so that tells me his will be a very, very good player.

Cotchin will be a tar midfielder, but Kreuzer looks like he will be a star ruck/KPP, and given we already had Judd, Murphy, Gibbs etc, I was and still am happy we took the tall.

Take a gun tall over a gun small any day of the week.

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

Racist!!!

I'm not sure the club knew in 2006 they would tank in 2007 to get Kreuzer, but it is possible. If this was the case then that might have played some role in us chosing Gibbs over Berger, because we knew we would get the Special K the following year.

But if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have been alarmed had they gone with Berger, because he will be a gun and was a stand out in 2006. I spoke to a scout in 2006 and he kept raving about Berger so he was right up there in calculations along with Hansen and Gumby.

Assuming the club did not plan to tank 2 years running, I can only assume the club chose the more conservative approach and went with Gibbs because he had always been a stand out, a prodigy as a kid. I think there's a good argument for going the safe option with No.1 picks. You don't want to stuff it up, even if it means maybe missing out on a player who might have more X Factor (but comes with greater risk).

Either way, I wouldn't have been unhappy to get Berger and Cotch. Although granted Krezuer has more upside because of his agility/running capacity and ability to play KPP not just ruck.

The interesting one of course is Selwood. But the teams with the top 5 or 6 picks all passed on him also, and I dare say had the Catters had the no.1 pick they would have by-passed Selwood because he had a question mark over his knees and still does. Selwood has been the best player so far from 2006, but he was a year advanced on Gibbs age wise, and Gibbs will end up a far more versatile player given his extra height and education in defensive roles. I am happy with Gibbs, but I want him to open up his wings in midfield now, and take the game and the opposition on more. The club have developed him well and protected him when he needed it in his first couple of years, but I think it's just about time to let the kid run riot. He notched up about 10 Brownlow picks once he went on-ball in mid 2008, so don't be surprised if in 1-2 years he is getting 20+ votes.

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Agree with you about Gibbs.

Slowly learning the trade under a semi protective cloak in defence......IMO....he's a sleeper and will improve very quickly.

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