It will be positive if we win, it will be negative if we lose.

Win/Lose...............

i HATE that one.............!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Does anyone know when the 2009 draw is announced?

I need to start planning for my holidays to coincide with the game.

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The Future is Bright, the Future is Navy Blue.

When don't they, it seems some are keen to have a game up north just so's they can have a weekend away, check out the 'bikini's' and get pissed without answering to the Missus.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

& the problem is???

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The Future is Bright, the Future is Navy Blue.

Friday

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With 12 seconds to go in the 1947 Grand Final Fred Stafford snaps a left footed goal. Carlton beat Essendon* by one point..

Number 17 in Carlton's 25 Greatest Moments.

Wow, seems nobody is happy with this. The Courier Mail is reporting that it is unfair that the Victorian teams have been granted their wish not to play Brisbane at the Gold Coast...

The reason you Vics get accused of sooking is that your arguments, by and large, have focused on little more than the statement of "We only get to see the team play 16 times next season". Not really surprising that there's little sympathy for that attitude outside Victoria, or even Melbourne.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I reckon Cranium is entitled to his opinion, but by the same token so are the miriads of interstate members/supporters. The whole issue here is not that the club has agreed to play one of our TD home games at the GC or even to foster the brand interstate, but the reality that it is economically crazy not to. How anybody could mount an argument for passing up 400K as opposed to 40K is beyond me totally. If those boneheads at the AFL realized that they are gunna be pushing shit up hill with a sharp stick to promote the game in NSW, they would be offering the major drawing clubs similar money to play in the city of shirtlifters next year too, wouldn't they?

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2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

We are running a profitable club!

Just look at the net results and the profits are quite impressive (especially given where we've come from).

Having said that, whilst we are profitable, we have a huge debt to service. Our positive cash flow allows us to meet our repayment schedule, unlike the past where we had to sell our soul and ask the AFL for a loan to stay afloat. That wasn't so long ago.

We need to clear the legacy of debt sooner rather than later; it's a priority.

When we're out of debt, and not servicing our multi million dollar loan (which our profits pay for), we will be in a position to choose to avoid a decision to sell games out of necessity.

Take the money we can whilst we can. We have a long way to go, because whilst TD is our home ground, we are not going to erase our exposure to debt! Yes, debt! Debt is what got us in the position to have to do whatever Collins, TD and the AFL told us to do in the first place.

I want CFC to be financially free, profitable, with a cash surplus, with their destiny in their own hands.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

so it would seem you have all been sold snake oil. I'm not gloating but for all you people telling me that its so good because it means that we shove it up collins and telstra dome all we've managed to do is lose ourselves a game at the G. what a great @#$%&! deal?!?!?!!?

that was spin doctoring at its best. they even quoted games for little profit from TD and then we find out that we are still playing 6 games at that shit hole. I don't care what anyone says, this deal stank from the time of first rumour, and its only getting worse.

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Interesting that Carlton, Richmond and St.Kilda were able to stop Brisbane being the away side, however, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs continue to have to play their home games in Canberra against Sydney...

At the risk of pissing off a whole heap of my interstate brethren, I'm going to jump back into this discussion.

AFAIC, there are potentially 3 reasons for selling a home game.

1. Financial inducement
2. Allow interstate supporters to see Carlton play live more often
3. Spread our brand

Let's look at each separately.

1. Financial inducement

It is true that we are going to be paid $400k for this game, a significant amount of money. It is also true that despite a vastly improved financial situation, we are still millions of dollars in debt.

So, two things need to happen here. Firstly, we need to wipe out the debt. Secondly, we need to put ongoing revenue producing processes in place that will provide regular sources of income year after year after year.

$400k for this game (and another $400k next year) helps wipe out the debt. It doesn't provide a regular, ongoing, annual revenue stream (unless it becomes an ongoing annual event, which brings up a whole new discussion. For the purpose of this argument, I will assume that it is a 2-off occurence).

Pratt's reluctance to wipe out the debt himself was based upon the need to generate regular income streams, to get the fundamentals right. We seem to be putting these processes in place. However, selling a home game doesn't do this (ok, they may sell a few more memberships in the Gold Coast due to exposure, but the amount of $ is small). Pratt may as well put his hand in his pocket and give the Club $400k if this is the reason for selling the home game, and keep the brand and the history and all that.

I do not believe this to therefore be a valid reason for the Club to sell a home game.

2. Allow interstate supporters to see Carlton play live more often

No doubt this will please the interstaters, who must yearn to watch their team play live even once a year. And I can empathise with these supporters.

However, IMHO, I still don't see that this is a valid reason to sell a home game. Carlton is a Melbourne based club. It's culture and history is in Melbourne. It's soul is in Melbourne. It may have supporters all over the country, all over the world in fact, but it is still a Melbourne club.

I don't see Liverpool, Manchetster Utd, Dallas Cowboys, Real Madrid, New York Yankees etc playing home games for 'Premiership points' in other cities, just so their (often very loyal) supporters in other cities get to see them play live. It is understood that if you want to watch those teams, you go to the city in which they play, and you watch them there.

I believe that Carlton should be the same, as Collingwood and Essendon* are. Big clubs, with rich, proud histories. And when other clubs come to play us at our home, they should be intimidated, they should be in awe, they should be scared about playing Carlton Football Club on its own turf in front of 50,000, 70,000, 90,000 people. Even Fremantle...next year, if we were to play them in Melbourne, in round 7, if we are 4-2, there would be 45,000 at the MCG. Instead, we will travel, we will play them on front of 11,000 people on a neutral ground, and Fremantle will be a whole lot more confident of winning in that situation.

Hardly the way to impose ourselves onto the competition, and to reclaim our place as the most feared club in the land.

Not to mention, heaven forbid, if we lose on the Gold Coast when we would have won at the 'G (yes, I know, we will never know) and miss the finals or the top four by a game. What does that do to our Club, our tradition, our culture, our development...our chance to win a Premiership?

For me, and again, with respect to those loyal and passionate Carlton supporters interstate, it is not a reason to sell a home game.

3. Spread our brand

The final reason to sell a home game. No doubt, it would help to sell the brand. How much, I don't know. With a team coming to the Gold Coast in 2010, I can't imagine too many locals who don't have a team, getting on board the Blues, knowing they will have their own local team.

To me, this is a costly exercise in terms of culture, tradition, history and status. Spreading the brand in this way actually weakens the brand.

These are my thoughts. Again, I empathise with those of you who are interstate. I understand why you support and are excited by the decision to a play a home game on the GC. But I'm afraid I simply do not agree, and I believe the price that the Club ends up paying is too high a price to pay.

IMHO, it is a non-negotiable, Carlton plays its home games in Melbourne.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

IMO, you contradict yourself here.

You state that we need to wipe out debt as fast as possible, and that $400K is a large bag of coin to go towards that.

You also state that Pratt specifically refused to wipe out the debt himself, because he saw that in the long term, he can't be constantly asked to put his hand in his pocket for cash. I agree totally. The club is, in your words, still "in the process" of generating revenue streams which make taking $400K unnecessary. Until that time that those revenue streams are mature and self-supporting, then it's actually a massive bonus to us that we can take this cash now, rather than have to wait some years for an equivalent amount to be generated other ways.

So, the way I see it, you've been hoist on your own petard.

The selling matches shouldn't be a long term thing, but until it's definitely unnecessary, then take the money and run, I reckon.

And, at the risk of appearing pedantic, I think you do sympathise with interstate supporters and members, but reading your words, I don't think you do empathise with us.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Funny...I actually teach people the difference between sympathise and empathise. I would like to think I empathise.

As for the coin, I said that we needed to wipe out the debt, not that we needed to wipe out the debt as soon as possible. They were your words.

The point I was trying to make was that the reason Pratt didn't want to pay off the debt himself was because he realised we needed to get income producing processes in place.

This is not a process. This is a one (or two) off event. It is actually no different to Pratt putting his hand into his pocket and giving us $400k. Except that the culture and history and tradition of the club is not tarnished.

And for me, that culture and tradition and history is paramount, it is what helped us survive the recent dark years, many other clubs would have disappeared in those circumstances.

To sell home games for one-off payments diminishes the strength of the brand that enabled us to survive. IYes, the $400k would be great to have, of course it would. Personally, I would prefer that Pratt gave us $400k, and we play the game in Melbourne. The effect of Pratt paying us or the AFL paying us is the same.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Fair point.



I would say that having one man dip in and pay entire debts himself is a pretty tarnishing thing, personally, but I know others would see it differently.

I agree that the GC match(es) aren't a process, but the fact that we're able to get the cash while the processes are still being implemented is a massive bonus. And to me, that's why I felt that you somewhat contradicted yourself.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

don't think he meant Pratt paying off the whole debt, he is talking about the 400/800k that we are going to get for selling our soul. that money could be given by Mr Pratt and keep soul intact

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

He did indeed mention Pratt paying off the whole debt, and his refusal to.

Kind of a "Give a man a fish..." scenario. Which I agree with in this instance, by the way.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I read that Essendon* are in the black by about $10 million in cash and assets - while Carlton is about $5 million in debt.

A $15 million turnaround is a big ask for any club - given that it costs over $20 million a year to get a decent AFL club kitted out and onto the park each week.

So a club in a position like Carlton is - in debt but aspiring to be in as good a position as Essendon* is in a financial sense really needs to put runs on the board if they are at all serious about improving their overall financial position...

So if getting Carlton back to where it was before the Elliot rot set in is important - then Gold coast games really are a very important part of that...

$400,000 straight into the bank would make a great one off payment on a $5 million outstanding loan balance. The repayments would probably go down as well - which means that we would have less financial pressure and less debt to service.. - Its a win all round really...

Id hate to be paying the interest on a loan like that, and Im sure that Greg Swan would hate it as well...

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My Blue Heaven