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R13: Pros & Cons

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macka

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:02 pm

Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:10 pm
Posts: 87

Blues87 wrote:

Absolute rubbish to say that Stevens was poor today!!!

He was clearly our best midfielder and was damaging almost every time he got the ball. He was credited with 11 contested possessions and was working very hard. Plus his two goals were pure class. Ryan, your criticism of Stevens today shows that you clearly have a one eyed hatred of him with not an ounce of objectivity. As if we would drop our most effective midfielder.

Murphy on the other hand had a shocker today. 44% effectiveness. He was bereft of confidence with his kicking which is why he butchered that chance in the 2nd quarter when he handballed to Fev. I love Murph but there is no way he was a pro today.

Thats how I saw it too mate. Stevens has been largely responsible as the one who lifts the team when needed lately. I have never been a huge fan of his but he stands up when required.....perhaps my only criticism is that he does seem to be one of those players who can save himself for a last quarter effort.

Murphy is a protected species on this site though mate - be careful! F#$k he had a shocker today and it is not the first time this year. Wont bag him though we are supposed to save that for Russell! Watch them latch on to his bad game today.

We got smashed in the midfield and in clearances around the ground for about 90% of the game. IMO thats where we lost it.

Last edited by macka on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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club29

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:06 pm

John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy

Melvey wrote:

Cons: Supporters who think we are far better than what we really are

We got such a long way to go, we looked slow today, we had no dangerous forwards, no goal sneaks and our players just don't run hard enough.

Yeah and we're going to make the finals!!!

Is that really worth posting as a con. I cant see that really playing a part in this teams maturing.

Silly Con.

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keogh

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:06 pm

Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6417

Blues87 wrote:

I am one of Stevos least admirers but after quarter time a thought he was good and showed some heart
He has to otherwise Ratts will lose patience

With Judd not right Stevo I thought stepped up a bit.

Pros the come back
Fev

Cons
worst 1st quarter of the year
Today confirmed that Carrazzo aint a defnder
played catch up
no options up forward
after Fev

The ball was delivered to Fev 22 times Next was Fisher with 3

Hartlett to play next weekend
Not Ackland
Edwards at some stage this year needs to be given time as well.
Fish has a roll for now but he aint good enough to be a second option
And another crumber to play alongside Betts
Ratten needs to roll the dice on the forward line.
He must change the structure to make us less predictable.

Wiggins puts in every week but for a forward he simply doesnt hurt you

It didnt suprise me to see us off the boil today

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shuffagus

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:09 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:34 pm
Posts: 2033
Location: Melbourne

stevo was one of our good players and got plenty of the footy, but he seemed mighty slow out there today

_________________
"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

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Melvey

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:13 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick

sstormin123 wrote:

Melvey wrote:

CONS: People thriving in negativity, revelling when we lose

Its called being realistic.

Today was a big reality check for many.

Doesn't one understand the aim of the game is to kick goals.

We lack team cohesion an example of that was Fev slamming into Fish. Carazzo and Scotland constantly going for the pack spoil.

Hate to say this but the Bombers looked a far better unit than us today. Better skill, a functioning forward line and a decent ruckman.

In 3 games we have played 3 quarters of good football. The rest shite\

It's not being negative or reveling in defeat its being honest and having an understanding of where we are at and not being so one sided.

We were out played by a team that looked like they had purpose, a game plan and were able to attack the game be bold and creative but also be accountable.

I'm not going to popular for saying this but Matty Knights has the Bombers players understanding exactly there roles within the team. I think he is coaching, teaching and developing his side not matter the cattle he has on the park.

So much time out there we looked like we had no direction. Its great being accountable and having a negative and defensive style of play but at the end of the day you need to kick goals to win

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Effes

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:14 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19467
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au

The Tyrant wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Fisher's inability to do anything outside of 15m from goal. Should of been sent to the reserves weeks ago

flower bullshit CON. You realise that Fisher is the one wearing 14 leading well onto the wings?

Marking it on the wing isn't the problem - it's what he does with it after that.

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chubbyruss

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:17 pm

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 8631

Pro: Filth lost

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:17 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Fisher's inability to do anything outside of 15m from goal. Should of been sent to the reserves weeks ago

flower bullshit CON. You realise that Fisher is the one wearing 14 leading well onto the wings?

Marking it on the wing isn't the problem - it's what he does with it after that.

how many turnovers did he cause?

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DownUnderChick

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:18 pm

Herald Sun columnist

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 10018
Location: Visy Park

chubbyruss wrote:

Pro: Filth lost

Isn't that game still going?

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:18 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

PRO

Flecther pantsed royally

CON

Everything else

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Love Cricket? Love me

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Effes

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:19 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19467
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au

The Tyrant wrote:

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Fisher's inability to do anything outside of 15m from goal. Should of been sent to the reserves weeks ago

flower bullshit CON. You realise that Fisher is the one wearing 14 leading well onto the wings?

Marking it on the wing isn't the problem - it's what he does with it after that.

how many turnovers did he cause?

I don't have the stats in front of me but he isn't good enough IMO with the final kick going inside 50. They float in the air allowing a defender to come over the top and spoil.

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macka

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:20 pm

Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:10 pm
Posts: 87

Melvey you sound so negative though!! It is hard to execute a game plan ( and one did exist today ) when skill errors cost us so much. We got beaten in the ruck and in most clearances fro the centre/around the ground. The MC have plenty to look at before next week but I am confident they will. Stay positive mate....as someone involved in coaching I'm tellin you, you have to in this game to remain sane!!!!

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:21 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Fisher's inability to do anything outside of 15m from goal. Should of been sent to the reserves weeks ago

flower bullshit CON. You realise that Fisher is the one wearing 14 leading well onto the wings?

Marking it on the wing isn't the problem - it's what he does with it after that.

how many turnovers did he cause?

I don't have the stats in front of me but he isn't good enough IMO with the final kick going inside 50. They float in the air allowing a defender to come over the top and spoil.

So he should be removed from the team because of his floaters? this isn't a shared house, Effes.

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Effes

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:23 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19467
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au

The Tyrant wrote:

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Fisher's inability to do anything outside of 15m from goal. Should of been sent to the reserves weeks ago

flower bullshit CON. You realise that Fisher is the one wearing 14 leading well onto the wings?

Marking it on the wing isn't the problem - it's what he does with it after that.

how many turnovers did he cause?

I don't have the stats in front of me but he isn't good enough IMO with the final kick going inside 50. They float in the air allowing a defender to come over the top and spoil.

So he should be removed from the team because of his floaters? this isn't a shared house, Effes.

There doesn't seem to have been much improvement in his kicking going inside 50. He shouldn't be dropped because we don't have much else there at the moment. Wiggins is also rubbish at delivering it; he busts his arse to get a mark on the lead then gives opposition defenders a chance.

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bender

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:27 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2918
Location: dudley!!!

ryan2000 wrote:

Cons:-

STEVENS
Sorry. I know he'll probably be listed as one of our best, but he is a lazy half-assed footballer and i'm sick of it.
I'd drop him for next week. Bring back Walker, put Gibbs into the centre to replace Stevens.
He kicks a vital goal in the last quarter and then has the nerve to expect his teammates to lift for him?????? You can't go the whole game at 50%, kick a goal and then expect your teammates to consider you a leader! You need to throw 110% into 4 quarters of football to be a true leader..... and Stevens is just not that.

CARRAZZO.
Another who will be listed in our best. But from my count, he would have cost us at least 3-4 goals. Poor turnovers from lazy lazy dissposals.......and he never really looks that concerned when he does it. Pissweak. Another i would consider dropping.

NO INTENSITY IN THE FIRST HALF.
None. Nobody even looked liked they gave a shit. From the first Goal, Essendon* looked like they came to beat us and we looked like we were making up the numbers. Are we tired? Blockbuster-itis? What is it?

JUNK TIME
Why did we let so many goals go through? again, Half-Assed lazy footballers with no intensity.

PRO:-

GIBBS.
Thought he was one of the few that can hold his head high. True Leadership was on display today. Good game.

FEVOLA.
Jesus. With Fisher cutting off his lead, shocking delieveries, poor umpiring etc etc etc...... this guy still has the skill to kick 7. Give him $2.5mill over 3 years. God knows he deserves it.

MURPHY.
B&F WINNER RIGHT HERE PEOPLE. Sign him up ASAP.

WIGGENS.
Good game, if unspectacular.

If i was coach, i'd be quite blunt for next week. Stevens has shown some lazy piss-weak football these past few weeks. I'd start him on the bench against Richmond and if he doesn't lift....... i'd be dropping him.

i agree with nearly everything in this post. i highlighted the leadership bit, as it seems to me that stevo has been only playing in spurts the last few weeks. i know he has been out for ages, but we are midway through the season, and he should be match fit. the MC was right to appoint judd as captain, as he fully leads by example. he was definitaly injured today, yet still stayed on the ground, even if he was in a limited capacity. skills alone dont make a captain, passion and commitment and the will to sacrifice do. yes, the umpires did have an impact - see monfries free for too high in the first, but we played poor unthinking footy in the first qtr, and while the umps didnt do us any favours (but i love blaming them!!!)- in fact they were shit - the umps arent the reason we didnt match up and were always too far behind our men when on the lead. thought armfield had a solid game, but our midfield took a hammering.

the major cons for mine were the one dimensional forward line with no crumbers, and how badly our ruck division was beaten, through no fault of thier own, just by a better ruckman.

the pro? - we should smash richmond to show we are fair dinkum and this was an abberation!!!!

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shuffagus

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:31 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:34 pm
Posts: 2033
Location: Melbourne

bender wrote:

the pro? - we should smash richmond to show we are fair dinkum and this was an abberation!!!!

we should but if we play like today, and they play like yesterday; its not looking to good

_________________
"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

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Andain

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:31 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2547
Location: Melbourne

Pro
Fevola
Gibbs
Simmo

Cons
Carrazzo
Our defense
Judd getting knocked out
Brad Fisher
Junk time goals conceeded
Getting beaten by one of the worst teams in the comp

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moshe25

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:32 pm

Vale 1953-2020

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671

PROs:

* Stevens played a great game, including taking a gutsy mark from a Carrots floating hospital pass, and getting lots of contested ball.
* Fev - the most CONSISTENT class full forward in the AFL over the past 6 years (no matter what some nuff nuffs say)
* Army
* Gibbs

CONs:

* Ferral supporters

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:34 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

Effes wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Fisher's inability to do anything outside of 15m from goal. Should of been sent to the reserves weeks ago

flower bullshit CON. You realise that Fisher is the one wearing 14 leading well onto the wings?

Marking it on the wing isn't the problem - it's what he does with it after that.

how many turnovers did he cause?

I don't have the stats in front of me but he isn't good enough IMO with the final kick going inside 50. They float in the air allowing a defender to come over the top and spoil.

So he should be removed from the team because of his floaters? this isn't a shared house, Effes.

How many other players are poor at getting it inside 50? how much of the problem could be caused by an over-reliance on one player even at the expense of another option?

I personally think your argument is rubbish, I'm just asking these questions because you wouldn't want your criticism - pointless as it is - to be considered unconstructive.

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bender

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:37 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2918
Location: dudley!!!

shuffagus wrote:

bender wrote:

the pro? - we should smash richmond to show we are fair dinkum and this was an abberation!!!!

we should but if we play like today, and they play like yesterday; its not looking to good

hey, dont burst my bubble!!!!! i need something to hold onto this week!!! :lol:

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