We have to beat Melbourne.

At least give Optus Oval the send off it deserves.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Agree with Tyrants game plan, looks really good. Not a tanking plan at all.

Although what would happen if we played some kids and finished ninth?

Also, a serious question for those who now want a priority pick this year. Let's say we do finish with a priority pick. What is your plan after that, do we try to finish low again in 2006, 2007? How many are enough, when do we start again?

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I hate the thought of Carlton bottoming out, but I think that in our case, because of the long term effect of out draft penalties, the TINA principle applies.

Do we have to bottom out to bring A grade talent to the club - There Is No Alternative.

Actually there is an alternative - hang around in football purgatory for the next 5 to 10 years until our pack of patch up players retire and we drop from 10th to 16th.

I think that doing this would be no better over the long run in terms of sponsors/membership etc than if we bombed big time in 2005 and got that A grade talent through the draft, retired a couple of salary cap soakers, whose best is behind them and had another rebuilding session.

We flunked a season defining test on Saturday. If our good form was really there all the time, but slow in coming out - well I think that theres been pretty much enough time to either prove of disprove this.

Its very close to separating the sheep from the goats time in the 2005 season.

Very close to playing kids that want to become AFL footballers at the expense of older players who arent or dont want to be the future of Carlton.

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My Blue Heaven

then we've improved

And, it doesn't really matter where you finish. Everyone knows Russell was the best player in the draft, and we got him with pick 9.

WASN'T HE????

Your top 10 pick should be a gun if both club and player put the effort in.

You get quality out of the draft if you finish outside the finals... you just have to be smart (ie, not like we used to act).

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Love Cricket? Love me

Yeah, sounds like a pretty good plan, but I also remember giving some kids exposure in 2002 - Livo, Sporn, Wiggins etc - absolutely crippled their confidence, Wiggins is only just getting his back, the other two are still a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment.

Would hate to see our current crop of youngsters cop the same...

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I don't believe that is/was the case.

Playing at the highest level doesn't cripple your confidence on its own, if you fail.

Recovering from failure is the test of a champion.

I think Wiggins/Sporn/Livo have suffered more from a) having long-term injuries, and b) getting mixed messages from above.

Young kids need a job. That's my philosophy. They learn from a job. You need to sit your young kid down and say:

"mate, you're our back pocket. you're going to play there as long as you put in."

Look at Carrazzo..... ok, he's a bit older, but players with good heads adapt at 17/18.

People only suffer after failure if they dwell on it. Thats when you get in the kid's head and teach him that you're tolerant of failure.

If a young player knows his coach has faith in him, and that he won't hang for his mistakes, ... AND has a clear set of instructions, then he plays with more abandon.

These kids have played footy their whole lives. (most of them). Jordan Russell has played SANFL at senior level.

Andrew Walker didn't gun in the VFL before getting a game. The best game he's played for us was on his debut.. and that's including the ressies. Cory McGRath wasn't burning in the reserves before being picked last year... and he adapted straight away to the top level.

Look.... you basically have to isolate your top talent and nurture it. Russell needs exposure to learn. He should get a good few games playing off the bench, and THEN get a full run in the 2s. Let him know what the state of play is.

Denis sits Jordan down and say:
"Jordan. You are a talented young man. We know you will make it if you keep putting in on the track. We've got a development plan for you. You'll play these games in the seniors...... we expect this from you..... (just effort)......"

and then:

"look mate. Mistakes happen. I don't care if you turn the ball over or whatever. You just keep running and tackling and trying, and you'll get a pat on the back from me."

etc etc

Look, for all of Grant Thomas' shitty qualities, you shouldn't run your list any differently then running a business.

- You identify talent
- undertake tests (psychological/aptitude)
- you set up a development plan (ie training)
- you put the development plan into action
- you are tolerant of error, and make the person well aware of it

The 9th best junior player is TALENT. You don't draft him, drop him into 2s and think "oh well.... lets see what happens"

THAT'S POOR MANAGEMENT PRACTICE

If the kid fails and crashs because he has such a frail mindset, then we should have tested for it when we drafted him, and shouldn't have drafted him.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Thornton flourished under the pressure, he wouldnt be half the player he is now without having had to play on the AFLs best FFs every week. Sporn and Livo suffered from injuries, far more damaging to confidence. Livo suffered from expectations based on being a no.4 pick. Disagree Deano, reckon these guys have benefited from getting 50 odd games quickly under the belt. As would Russell and Hartlett.

What finishing low does is it gives you a chance to shake the tree and bring in a player that can change the dynamics of this football club. (PSD) Jarusa youre not serious are you?
How many priority picks are enough you ask???
Do you seriously think if you had Riewoldt Kosi Judd Ball Hodge Goddard Wells Cooney Walker Sylvia Deledio Tambling Franklin.. and any Pre season draftee that you can shake off the tree youd be wondering when you can go forwards????....
Just pick any 4 of that group.. and 2 great players through the PSD over 2 years and you will have a decade of success..........

... Just remember we didnt get our 'reward' so were staring into the gun already...

Love some of the attempt to logic by some of you. ..

especially the ones that want to win every game possible but lets play the kids. You wont win many games playing Russell , Simmo , Bentick cos theyre not physically up to the rigours of AFL footy.

So what youre saying is " i secretly want a priority pick but i dont want to look like a suck about it..so ill say play the kids and hide behind my finger and pretend im proud"
Get real!!!

Youre either pregnant or youre not pregnant..
Unless its a phantom baby where the body is talked into being pregnant by the mind has all the symptoms but actually isnt.. :insert garthp roll:

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sooo, to try and dig through the waffle, you are saying we need two years of priority picks if we are to have any chance of success.

So your plan is to do badly in 2005 and 2006, then what?

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Pretty simple really - you get 2 of either a Deledio, Cooney, Tambling, Franklin or Roughead type to the club - thats none of your goat thats craftsmanship sir.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Well my plan is a plan with a time frame.. whats your plan???

Steady as she goes Richmond bog (20 years to get your head above water and a laughing stock ) Get real!!! 2 years then what???

Well thats 2 years of adding Deledio Franklin Cooney and Ball along with 2 elite ready made footballers to what we already have... not good enough for you .???
Or want to keep Lance and Campo to lead the Bannisters , McGraths and every other reject and late pick we can get our hands on....

A guy that understood footy and life once said.. you can boil them, grill them, fry them and even smoke them but at the end of the day theyre still sausages...

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thats a hard formula to follow AGRO, Jarusa will say so what????

Well those 4 and 2 out of contract guns is 30% of a side.

Well when we won the 1987 premiership we had a core group of about 30% very good players (lets just say we dont have any other good players and T Bird Waite Betts Walker Stevens didnt exist) and they won a premiership with a strong core of gun footballers.

Who is our superstar Jarusa?????

Who at Carlton is a Judd, Riewoldt, Ball????

Where were those players found??? Under a rock do you reckon??
Oh i know.. youre going to give me the example of Hird arent you????

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Didn't we already do that with Stevens?

Deano maybe you should ask the "footballers" who represented the Carlton Football Club on Saturday and then move on and ask the "footballers" who represented us in the last 3 years to record 7 of our worst 20 defeats in history.

It's actually very embarrasing. There is no way in hell that Richmond is a 85 point better team than us. No pride.

Bottoming out - who the hell knows? What l do know is that the top picks normally reduces the risk of picking a dud........but knowing our record we could completely balls up our selections!

Ok so we did it once..,. did you know Stkilda over 3 years took Kosi, Riewoldt, Ball Clarke Goddard, Hamill, G Train , Heath Black , Powell and Penny because they finished around the bottom???

And unless you have the memory of a goldfish we missed out on draftees for 2 years and we have a shit squad.. so regardless of what we did in one year it isnt enough....

you need to put on your farmers straw hat.. go farm and harvest till the money rolls in .. otherwise if you dont have the stock you cant sell produce and if you cant sell produce you wont eat and if you dont eat you dont shyt and if you dont shyt youll die....

Its simple isnt it???

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Synners

You play the kids and try and win, knowing well you probably won't.

But to be honest, having Bannister, DeLuca and Sporn (to name a few) running out in the Navy blue doesn't inspire much confidence either.

I can't see how picking Russell ahead of Sporn DIMINISHES our chances of success.

Its a long-term process regardless. Its a shame that team building now = tanking for picks in the modern parlance. I don't really care if we get pick 1 or pick 15 if I can see a bit of a squad developing around the young players we have.

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Love Cricket? Love me

By having an extra pick in the first round, it also gives you bargaining power to go after another uncontracted player.

Could work in our favour this year, too.

Why? Many reasons.

1) We should have a fair bit of cash to throw around.
2) If we had that extra pick, we could use it to lure a quality uncontracted player to the club.
3) We may have the option of using the PSD to our advantage. Example...
Club Z wants more than our first rounder for Player A. However, Player A wants to come to us. We threaten Club Z that Player A will walk and come to us via the PSD. Club Z thinks about it and gives in to our offer for Player A.

As I said before, this draft is going to be so very crucial for us.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Really complicated concept for some people...

Look players wont leave their club unless theyre pissed off usually.. because usually the difference in money is 100k or so...
But say the offer to getting someone over the line isd an extra 300k.. and this player is a Jonathon Brown or a young Michael Voss..

Are you guys serious in saying youd rather have Campo and Whitnall on over 1.2 million than Jonathon Brown on 800k????

well you wont get Jonathon Brown even if he wanted to come if you finish.. ELEVENTH!!!!
He wont put himself in the draft... and if he did hed go to COLLINGWOOD!!!
so youre stuck with Lance and Campo....and the dynamics of the team havent changed.. so youll finish 10th or 11th next year too... and the year after.. and by the time you drop away to last the priority pick is just a second rounder and youre a hasbeen club.... cos when you were looking at the horse going by and you had the chance of jumping on you watched it.. worried that you might fall or the horse isnt the right horse.. (it was too white) and its gone past you.. and now you have to walk.....

Its about options and making choices that you can control... because you cant choose what you cant control...

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Cousins for Carlton

What better place to meet gangsters than Lygon st?

BEN COUSINS!!!!!!!

IT'D BE LiKE HAVING 2 NICK STEVENS

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Love Cricket? Love me

True.
I had Justin Longmuir in mind when I was typing that out.
Not sure what you have heard in regards to him and the possibility of coming to Carlton, but I did hear somewhere that he wasn't overly impressed with the way Freo treated Troy.
Since Troy and Justin are quite close, perhaps that may push him over the edge and into our lap?

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24