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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Buzza4 wrote:
get rid of the hacks wrote:
Ryan8024 wrote:
...and that kid who ends up paying over $180 for the jumper might really want one so badly because he missed out on getting his jumper personally signed for no expense at the family day. :roll:


and maybe his dad is rich and the kid missed out on family day bcoz the whole family was taking holiday in the Whitsundays, and his mum is too busy shagging the postman to ever take him to training when Dad is working...........so the kids rich Mum buys him the jumper as long as the kid promises not to tell his dad he saw the postie leave his parents bedroom after he heard his mum squealing like a pig and moaning like a ho......who cares....as long as the Postie used protection..... the kid got his Judd signed jumper........the bloke on ebay made an easy $100......mum & dad's marraige is still intact.....win win win


Mr Hacky, as pleasing as your little 'maybe' land is, MAYBE the guy who is selling the jumper is a grubby little profiteer who rather than doing things the proper way ie doing this WITH everyone's consent and paying proper commissions - like you're supposed to - decides to go to family day (a fundraising day for the club and a chance to get to the grassroots level of supporters) and take whatever he can get his hands on to flog off on ebay. Again - while he and his minions are standing in line all sweaty with 10 jumpers each to be signed, some little boy and girl who's mother has been with the postman, is about to go on their first holiday for 10 years to the whitsundays, etc... has to stand behind them waiting because they love the CFC and just want to meet their heroes. Unfortunately they can't get those signatures on their caps because by the time their turn comes family day is over.

What a ridiculous argument. I don't think the Keynesian dynamics of a free market economy really come into play here. Scalping is illegal. If you need some further direction on the decent way to get jumpers signed to sell, get in touch. Otherwise, this really is pointless and pathetic.

Now - what were the rules on signing in with two different names...?


2 different names ?.....who are you refering to ?

Why is your scenario more likely than any other.
What is to say the jumper wasnt signed after training, when everybody is accomodated......if he was just in it for the $ why would waste hrs of his time standing in a queue at Family day. He may not have denied anybody else the opportunity to get a jumper signed.

The club is not selling signed jumpers so they are not missing out on any revenue. In fact this guy has facilitated the sale of 1 extra Carlton jumper.
Any kid who has an opportunity yo go traing can still get a jumper signed without paying a premium.
All I see here is someone making a a very few easy dollars by giving Carlton supporters interstate, overseas and locally who may have no other way of getting a Judd signed jumper the opportunity to buy one.

Selling unlicensed autographed memorabilia never has been considered scalping and never will be.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:28 pm
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I tend towards Economic Libertarianism. For example, I don't believe Visy Board should have been fined in the first place in a Just system. I really don't agree with the theories that are used to justify a regulated market. As far as I'm concerned laws against theft, fraud and usury should be enough. If I was standing behind the guy who got that signed jumper to auction on ebay, and he was the last guy to get one(.. and i subsequently missed out) I would probably feel at the least disappointed and most likely pissed off if I knew he was just going to auction it on EBAY. However, afterwards I would realise that it would be oppressive and wrong for me to persecute and slander the guy. Next time i'll do better and get that jumper.
I think a lot of laws and systems in place don't necessarily create prosperity but rather they can be the creations of sour grapes or possibly wealthy financiers ensuring that they hold on to what they've got. Just spent my last two bobs worth on this one I think.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CARLTON-BLUES-CAPTAIN-CHRIS-JUDD-SIGNED-JUMPER-2008_W0QQitemZ160210430464QQihZ006QQcategoryZ39855QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:43 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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A quick look at prices for signed jumpers and footballs will soon tell you there's little or no profit to be made, as the seller of this jumper is experiencing at present. Regardless, I don't have a problem with him or her selling the jumper as memorabilia is sold everyday on eBay and other outlets.

When is it appropriate? If the seller placed the jumper on eBay next year, is it now acceptable? Of course it is. Chris Judd signed the jumper in full knowledge that some people take the risk of trying to make a profit, but in 99+% of cases, pepople don't try. For that reason, players continue to give us autographs.

This is a mountain out of a mole hill.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Robert Walls
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The more he signs the less valuable they are. He knows that. He knows everything. He is Judd. there is only one Judd.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:32 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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It may just be, but that's why it's called unlicensed merchandise. The owners of the goods - ie the signature - are not being reimbursed for their time and value. The 'unlicensed merchandisee' is virtually giving them a slap in the face when hocking someone else's property - ie their autograph - to someone else without prior consent or arrangement.

I don't understand how you could argue any other way. If the player, no matter who it was, was in on the deal, that's fine. If during family day for example they advertised as such, then i think you would be getting a different reaction from most of the people there. Why don't you ask the seller why he didn't bother to ask all the players there if it was ok with them that he can sell their signatures?

This argument is just getting loopier and stupider with every post.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:52 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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To the best of my knowledge this will ruin it for all, because...
Man utd baarred players from signing stuff, even for kids as so much of it was ending up on ebay. This might go the same way.

And...

If he is hard up for money, he shouldnt be spengin money on membership, or paying in to family days if he is not a member, should have kept the petrol money as well, and would have been much better spent putting his time to use trying to find either a jjob or a better paying one.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:00 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Buzza4 wrote:
It may just be, but that's why it's called unlicensed merchandise. The owners of the goods - ie the signature - are not being reimbursed for their time and value. The 'unlicensed merchandisee' is virtually giving them a slap in the face when hocking someone else's property - ie their autograph - to someone else without prior consent or arrangement.

I don't understand how you could argue any other way. If the player, no matter who it was, was in on the deal, that's fine. If during family day for example they advertised as such, then i think you would be getting a different reaction from most of the people there. Why don't you ask the seller why he didn't bother to ask all the players there if it was ok with them that he can sell their signatures?

This argument is just getting loopier and stupider with every post.


Amazing - Judd could ask $1 for signing a jumper, he could ask $5 - he chooses not to - he signs it for you for free - he does not ask anybody to agree not to sell the jumper - where is the problem ?

Id Judd has a problem with it and wants to stop signing or place conditions on re-selling his signature - fair enough.
If it is ok with Judd it is ok.

These arguments get even sillier considering nearly everyone has burned Cds or made tapes/videos for friends or downloaded music.
These things are breaching copyright, selling a signed jumper breaches nothing.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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JackWorrall wrote:
A quick look at prices for signed jumpers and footballs will soon tell you there's little or no profit to be made, as the seller of this jumper is experiencing at present. Regardless, I don't have a problem with him or her selling the jumper as memorabilia is sold everyday on eBay and other outlets.

When is it appropriate? If the seller placed the jumper on eBay next year, is it now acceptable? Of course it is. Chris Judd signed the jumper in full knowledge that some people take the risk of trying to make a profit, but in 99+% of cases, people don't try. For that reason, players continue to give us autographs.

This is a mountain out of a mole hill.

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