If you've got nothing to say verbs, don't say it.

There are no excuses for such players as Kouta and Camporeale and Stevens and Scotland not to man up and be accountable defensively. Try analysing the game somewhat rather than making snide remarks.

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone!!

Make sure your facts are correct before you throw stats out. How long in the game was he his opponent for - 10 minutes? Simmo had Tambling while Tambling was on, and was marking various forward pocket players.

Using your approach you might as well bag Wiggins for Browns'4 even though 2 of his goals were against Bannister, and a third was a straight steal off Houla; hardly Wiggo's fault.

Simmo was clearly in the best given his desire to win the hardball which was all too lacking on the weekend.

Spot on molsey ... Slimmo had a very good game and was one who could hold his head up ... he won hard ball, he chased, he covered for team mates, and he ran and used the ball well .. shame he hit the post from 45 on the run in the last Q, he deserved a goal for his effort.

Very disappointing to see the ball lost at a contest near the centre circle, and watch 3 Richmond mid-fielders run hard into their forward 50 while 4 Carlton mid-fielders stand and watch.

Simmo was good...and he WAS LEFT ON the ground! (a good sign methinks )

Teague, Lappin, T-bird and Wiggins and Simpson....how much are these guys paid??? ...well double it for this weekend...ask Synbad where the money should come from.

Glad to see passion and contest non-stop from these blokes...aside from Setanta's goal..there were a few great moments from these guys...
Teague backing back and marking (twice) - one not paid - fair enough - and resulted in a goal
T-bird great spoil on Richo running back with the flight and with his jumper held...and got a free against him from which Richo goaled. T-bird looked like he was going to explode BUT DIDN"T... (I exploded for him when I saw the replay on the big screen).

Wiggo spewing Brown got a goal even though it wasn't his fault...
Lappin doing everything in the last term...
and T-bird again...dirty becuase he didn't spoiul when it cam out of the middle like a rocket, no pressure and pinned to Richo's chest. T-bird still kept up with him and even got an arm around to the front but just couldn't spoil because of the precsiion pass....and he was dirty on himself....
Great stuff ...as has been said...hurt and passion in ones performance...they were feeling what I was feeling in the stands....

either that or they're better actors than Campo

_________________
“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

Only one these let their opponent get more didposals and only one let their opponent get BOG and it was by a mile STEVENS!
Less guilty of playing for easy kicks? What a load of crap. Like Elwood said I know Camporeales role and thats fine as a sweeper but Stevens plays in the centre 99% of the time his role is to win some hard ball and he simply doesn't. Dot give me this clap trap about less guilty.
As for Kouta no he isn't the greatest defensive player but is Hird is Voss is Judd! He still beat his man possession wise like he has most of the year unlike Stevens who has let his opponent get more of the ball in most of the games.
Whats interesting is that most sides will tag Kouta and Campo and run a head to head matchup with Stevens either the don't rate him or they know their man will win the battle?

That would be the Stevens who has more centre bounce clearances than anyone in the AFL?
The same Stevens who is 4th in the AFL for clearances behind Chris Judd and is top 5 in the game for possessions?

How does he get his centre bounce clearances?
Does the ball just appear in his pocket?

Perhaps if we had more than 5 midfielders, Stevens could actually get a rest and run out games like his opponent does.
He may lack accountability, he may lack defensive skills but to suggest Nick Stevens cant win a hard ball is unfounded.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

This sounds like 2003 all over again. We're going round in circles.

A clearence does not equal a hard ball get!

What, Is Stevens an in and under player?
Geez all those wasted years at Port playing as a receiver / clearance player.

_________________
This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Hard Ball Get can occur anywhere/anytime and is the process of gathering the ball. A clearance is credited to the player who clears the ball from a stop play e.g. Centre Bounce, Ball Up, Throw In.

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Stevens was a wingman at Port Adelaide in his early days and was a link player who kicked goals..Ports defense would switch play to the weak side and there would be Stevens on his own out on the wing...he carved us up in several games playing that way. From memoryin some games his opponent was Campo who played the same role for us and was often our best vs Port doing the same role as Stevens..

Josh Carr, Francou, James did all the hard ball grunt stuff which allowed Stevens to do his own thing...bit different with us...we have plonked him in the middle and told him to play in and under man and still get it 30 times, play link man and kick goals.

We have quality users of the footy in Stevens and Campo but not enough quality getting the ball....some talk about getting Judd to the club etc etc......we would be better with a Luke Ball who is a quality getter and distributor...Stevens is being forced to play too high in the food chain with us and is less effective.
Its not Campo's job to get the footy either and never has been....we really have never replaced Brett Ratten or Greg Williams....having a A Grade grunt is vital in winning flags....hoping Bentick or Jessie Smith can kick on but its a Luke Ball we really need...

I do feel for Stevo a bit but then again he was getting what $250k-$300k at Port for running up and down a wing and now $500k-$600k at Carlton for playing in the engine room. That's fair l would say - more dough equates to more responsibility and output.

I agree Elwood.

I dont understand how it is Stevens "role is to win some hard ball and he simply doesn't"
BTW, Where do I obtain data on who wins the "hard ball gets"?

The available information tells us that Carlton, who pride themselves on playing contested footy, had more uncontested ball gets than any other team in round 7.
Richmond had over 30% more contested ball than Carlton.

Interestingly our reciever Stevens, won more contested balls than Kouta or Campo.
He also laid more tackles.

We had a huge deficiency at the stoppages up to this year.
We now have a player who is number one in the AFL for centre bounce clearances.
We are number one in the AFL for scoring from centre bounce clearances.
Stevens is top 5 in the AFL for disposals and runs harder than anyone in our side.

For him to be labelled purely a reciever is ridiculous.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Nick dal Santo will be on 500K a year next contract......play him as a in and under though and you wont get 500K value from him....play Ball and Hayes in the middle and you will.

We are asking Stevens to play a role that doesnt suit...good player that he is he will make a fair effort at it...but not completely fill the role and you lose out on what he does best and thats create and set up the finished product

Voss was the Luke Ball and Simon Black was the Dal Santo.....
Its about structure and getting the right player for the right job not trying to turn players into something they are not...Stevens is not a in and under and either is Campo....like Dal Santo they are quality creators, linkers and finishers...

Scotto, you've got to be joking if you don't think Voss can't play defensively. The guy can play anywhere on the ground and he is accountable when he needs to be. He also shows leadership, doesn't back away from hitting someone fairly if he needs to and he stands up for his teammates.

Stevens is less guilty, yes, because he has more contested ball gets than Camporeale or Koutoufides.

Less guilty doesn't mean not guilty.

This is not the criminal law...

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

NEVER said Voss can't play defensively Clem so don't say it to suit your story! The best players in any team will back themselves against any opponent Voss is no different. Yes Voss can be defensive but he's first thought is to win the ball if not then to be defensive not the the otherway around. Hence he is not a great defensive player because he doesn't play as one. Kouta 25 tackles Voss 13! As for Voss playing anywhere on the field maybe a couple of years ago but now? You obviously haven't watched Voss for awhile because yes he's is still a gun but nowhere like the level he was at his best.

It might be criminal law but its just a pissweak firing squad against a great Carlton player.

scotto.. id rather have Voss out there with our boys on one leg than Kouta.. Voss provides the intangible we miss. Leadership.
Like if you could take one of these two and make him assistant coach in two years who would it be???
Not that an assistant coach always means leadership but who would you rather have floating around the club to teach kids in a couple of years. Voss or Kouta??

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.