from the website

Has been an assistant coach since 1997 and before 2001 had worked mainly as a fitness coach. He will coach the Bullants again in 2007 and will work in the Football Administration Department at Carlton specifically in the areas of player development and recruiting.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Sydney Blue,

I understood that he was the coach of the Bullants, ie all of the Bullants, including non Carlton list players, new recruits and older Carlton players like Teague who didn't get into the seniors this year and Carlton players who move between the seniors and the Bullants. There is no way that what he does is anythin like what I am referring to.

The type of coach which Neil Balme was talking about, and which the clubs that I have referred to have employed work one on one at all times with the new recruits.

But I guess what would these guys know, we have Barry Mitchell.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Amongst Talkingcarlton posters, just judging from what I read, I reckon the "proportions of blame" for lack of kids' success are roughly:

1) Pagan/development - 50%
2) Overall crapness of our team - 35%
3) Recruiting - 15%

This is very different from the rest of Carlton's 35,000 members who are not die hard TC loonies like us . I reckon your average Carlton member who goes every week but doesn't study it all in depth, blames as follows:

1) Recruiting - 60%
2) Pagan/development - 20%
3) Crapness - 20%

This might reflect that blaming recruiters is the easy answer that requires less analysis, but nevertheless, if you sit in the stands and listen to the Blue faithful, you will hear our recruting being bagged all day.

My personal formula:

1) Crapness/lack of senior core - 50%
2) Pagan/development - 30%
3) Hughes - 20%

This is just a guess. Nobody knows the right answer.

I reckon our recruiting is not as heavily scrutinized on this site as it is within the wider Carlton community.

Would be interested in other posters' percentages.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

Older players Teague, Saddington, Mclaren the rest are pretty young .

If he was just there to coach the Bullants I doubt very much he would have had 4 or 5 future ruckmen playing each week .

A development coach is just another coach who works with young recruits - most of our list is young so in effect all the coaches are development coaches

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

barry was there in 2006 when they were talking and similar outcomes

vfl coaches are employed to win games.
development coaches are there to work solely with draftees.

the problem is we tried to cut corners and use a vfl coach as our development coach.

How long are we going to keep making excuses for Pagans useless coaching . We dont have a development coach like collingwood so our youth is not as good what a load of tripe.

Pagan stifled every bit of creativity these kids had . Remember Walkers first game.

Walker - Tagger
Russell - Tagger
Gibbs- Back Pocket
Hartlett- Back Pocket
Betts- Defensive forward
Bentick - Tackler (look at his last couple of games when released)
Anderson - Straight to the back pocket
Houlihan - Back pocket

I'm sure there is more who knows what Bannister , Sporn and Wiggens would be capable of if they were not given stopping roles.

Stupid game plan
No creativity
No freedom
No decision making
Poor Development

You could have 100 so called development coaches on your list with this bloke in charge it would not make one bit of difference

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

You're right SB,

Now that Pagan has gone we don't need to change anyhting else, we have the perfect model, simply throw the kids out on the field and the rest will take care of itself.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Why on earth did Pagan play Joe Anderson in defence. Like, it wasn't as though he ever played there before he joined it, is it?

And Harts should have been dragged in the games against Freo, Melbourne and Sydney. Fancy running around in F50 when he was supposed to be in D50 playing back pocket. Hmmm ... at least Barry Mitchell would never have played Harts in the backline.

Neither am I. Wish they would bite that easy when I go fishing.
Geelong has assistant coaches but decided to spend 300k on the development side of things. Neil Balme knows the difference, Greg Swann knows the difference.

The rising star award has meant very little over the years and even less after they re-named it in honor of Ron Evans.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Hit. Nail. Head.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Honestly

I thought you understood footy a little better than this SB

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

while we on the subject of football knowledge shall we go back and find all those posts where you told me Pagan could coach and would turn things around

dont have the hide to question my knowledge of football when you supported Pagan

Coach of the worst 5 years in the clubs history

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

We all know Gibbs will be a gun!

Who cares what the "great selection comittee" think!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Go ahead and find them, I dare you

After that you can tell me Walker isn't a better footballer for the time he's spent learning a defensive side to his game and that Gibbs also won't benefit from the same and keeping away from the midfield until his body fully matures...or maybe you'd like to see him next to Murphy getting smashed week in, week out together.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

It's clear that the kids who play for the better teams and are allowed to pick up possessions willy nilly due to not having as much pressure on them to carry the game fare better in the NRS than kids from shit teams.

Put Danyle Pearce into our midfield rotation and he'd fare nowhere near as well. Dale Thomas would get absolutely smashed every week.

Our kids are getting a very rough deal at the moment, but I hope that in the long run they will be better footballers for it.

That said, I think Jackson would have got a nom had he been given the opportunities early in the season.

No surprise there.

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A lot depends on the players around young kids. We haven't got many 150 gamers to show the way. Collingwood and Port ahve an older and more experienced playing group.
Finally, the RS nominations usually come from the winning team (not always) so the more you win, the more you are likely to get. Bit like the Brownlow votes in modern history.
Skilts won three in a team constantly on the bottom of the ladder. Now, the BOG is almost NEVER from the losing team.
Same with the RS nomination.
Get over it. It is, as somebody else posted, an individual thing in a team game.
I'd rather not win the RS and play finals.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

That's correct - the worst 5 years of the club - not just because of the coach but because of many things that make up "the club".

Poor Administration

Poor List

Lack of $ to support footy department growth

Poor Board & President

Since many of the above have turned around & the departure of DP the club is starting to turnaround.

It is not ALL Denis Pagan's fault. He is in part to blame but he had many helpers in delivering a very forgetable 5 years.[/code]

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

I'm not a Pagan fan and you won't find one post of mine saying that I am. But, to blame it just on the coach is narrow minded.

Pagan has to take a fair bit of the blame but not all. I think he's game plan and tactics had as much to do with the problems in development as (if not more) than his positioning of the players. Also he was too eager to drag them after a mistake and didn't use the bench properly.

However, we didn't have the administration fixed up, nor the funds, nor the training and development resources as other clubs had. Leadership programs, a dedicated development coach, etc.

Coupled with that a lacking of quality senior players and it was a recipe for disaster. When Pagan came in, he quickly lost the senior players because they were used to being empowered by previous coaches, part of the decision making process, where as Pagan was old school. He called all the shots. It just wasn't a good fit. Pagan and Carlton were never a good fit.