Jar

the thing is history does repeat - if you let it and not all history is bad.

Yes JE and carlton put too much into being arrogant and not enough into hard work

but before them

stood a proud club

innovative
and strong

I wouldn't mind some of that back again.

I wouldn't mind a club saying to the AFL @#$%&! you and telling everyone what the AFL has got over us (and if that destroys us so be it - I'd rather that than this pile of dribbling weakness)

I wouldn't mind having ex players strutting the halls again.

Did you hear Fev pleading with the ex-players to come back to the club/ That all they have are photos and names on lockers. While Fev was trying to defend Denis he convinced me Denis must go - not because of his coaching - really couldn't care less at this point, but because he is killing off our history.

There is no connections between what we were

and what we have become.


We are far greater than JE and need to embrace that side again. Not hide. Not be shit scared. Not ever think the AFL has our interests at heart.

@#$%&! the lot of 'em.

Bring Carlton back to itself

Bring back the boys! Even if they all played under JE they are Carlton champions and belong at Carlton.

Anything must be better than this version of Carlton.

This spineless, listing shipwreck of a club too scared to make a decision in case they get it wrong.

Be wrong!

Its better than being scared!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Great post Danny.

It's time we started to claim our pride back.

I'M SICK TO F*CKING DEATH OF BEING ASHAMED.

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

It would be killing the likes of Koutoufides to finish his career under the current regime.

Killing him so much he decided to take another year on a drastically reduced income and loss of captaincy Ahh, maybe he's talking about the likes of Campo .

Another thing I've realised is we've ALL been kidding ourselves. There hasn't been ANY improvement in our kids AT ALL!!

Walker, Murphy, Simmo, Blackwell, AB, Thornton etc - no improvement from them whatsoever

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end of message

I certainly admire Dog's balls to come out and publicly put his thoughts on the record. And even better that he's prepared to back his opinions with money for the club if required. That is fantastic, and most welcomed for sure.

But what's he really saying?

The club is shit and I want it better and I'll keep chucking a tanty until I get what I want.

Well, I can say that too. But it won't get me, or the club anywhere other than in the headlines.

Where is the plan or the thought process into making the club better? All we've seen from Fraser is "Sticks and Bear said it, so it must be good". Sorry, right now that's not enough. Not even close.

To identify and expose the problem is one thing. But how about someone comes up with something better than getting all their mates a job as a plan to turn things around?! If all the good ol boys are fair dinkum they would be in the press and on the box telling us, the fans of the Carlton Football Club, what their plans are and how they expect to measure their success and methods. What many of us have always wanted from Pagan is a clear picture of what he is trying to achieve. No mixed metaphors, no cliches, just an honest appraisal from the coach of where we're at and how he plans to fix it.

And now, the dream team coaching panel has been identified, named and all positions filled before they've even become available. But until we hear something concrete from these guys I'm sorry but I cannot see how it will make us any better than we are now.

"But they're Carlton blokes!"

That might have worked in the 80s, but this is 2006 and we're [REDACTED] as a club and still nobody has come out with a clear, unified and progressive plan to get us out of the shit. Not the board. Not Pagan. And certainly not Browny and his mates.

I want something other than sentiment as a plan to bring us into the future.

Pagan was right in his statement the other day. The club needs to be united again. But there's no point being united behind something that is compromised from the start.

This whole soap opera is horrible to watch. And I fear we've not even made it to the first ad break.

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Chucking a tanty = Recognising a problem

The Fraser Brown problem is a good problem to have. An idea, some money, some love of the Club from someone in a position to do something about it.

The bad problem to have is the leaks in the media, the apparent swtiching over by the Board and Garry Lyon calling our President (rightly or wrongly) a liar based on conversations with SOS.

Dont shoot the messenger on Brown.

HIT. NAIL. HEAD.

and dont worry -its not just the club, not just the players - probably more importantly its the fans that are going through the biggest shit out of all of it - and it is the fans that are most helpless.

at the moment - i couldnt give a shit about any of it

that is what it has come to

a change is needed

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

I haven't seen any ideas from these guys. Just names.

As I stated at the start of my previous post, I applaud Brown for speaking out and going on record.

But if his dream team are fair dinkum they should be getting their message out there. They should be making their claims irresistible to ignore.

Silence doesn't sell their message too well.

Maybe Fraser's outburst will inspre them to speak out too. But until they do, we don't know how they plan to turn the club around. Sentiment alone won't cut the mustard. What is their vision? What is their plan?

Speak up, I can't here you!

_________________
Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

What a joke..............that's all i can say really! What a flower joke!

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

"Pride refers to a strong sense of self-respect, a refusal to be humiliated as well as joy in the accomplishments of oneself or a person, group, or object that one identifies with.

An excessive pride is/(is demonstrated by) arrogance, ..... An arrogant person is not merely one unjustifiably confident in their own ability and value, but one actively seeking to cow or belittle other "lesser" people in order to achieve their ends. In arrogance one believes oneself to be superior to others, whether or not they really are more important. This negative state of mind results in hubris, because one would naturally disrespect and dispirit others to show their beliefs of superiority."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride



I want this club to Proud but not Arrogant.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Yeah he just sounded like a disgruntled supporter.....he sounded like another poster on the forums...

Good on him for speaking his mind..I always appreciate that but how can you really consider what he wants when alll he is doing is whinging and referring to his mates?

I woulodn't know what to do and i certainly don't know what's best for the club so I'll just sit back and watch on...

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

He's the first prson to go on the record and state exactly the feeling around the club.

And what he wanted to do about it.

We are so [REDACTED] that any change from the status quo would be an improvement - Mitchell or otherwise.

It's all about ousting Pagan and the incompetant board as step one

And yet people here are shooting him down.

Unbelievable!

_________________

************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

His sentiment agrees with you George but they mucke up your step 1.

That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me, nor does glibbly naming four ex team mates as an alternative coaching panel.

He needs to push ahead by forming a ticket now and striking with a carefully considered plan and team.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Brown obviously views Pagan as our biggest issue at the moment.
He has the ears of those involved far more than any of us.

If he believes the players have had enough, good on him for doing something about it.
Instead of spilling the board and dragging us through the mud, he offered to fund Pagans payout.
Good on him, he sees a problem and offers a solution.

As for the media circus, how do you suspect the media got hold of the offer? Where every other media leak comes from. The boardroom of CFC.

A man sees a problem and sticks his hand up to fix it.
Too bad we dont have more people like that.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Too bad he couldn't secure the numbers this time.

He's now got an opportunity to follow up.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I view the board as the biggest issue....and then the coach....we will never be a decent team again until we are right off the field.

re: Brown...while he hasnt done everything by the book and I can understand Jarusa's suspicions at least Brown is doing something and offering a solution of sorts....it needs a total cleanout starting with the board.....
I thought Browns comments in the paper were fair enough.....if a few more wealthy supporters had shown a bit more passion like Brown has done and offered to buy us out of this AFL control we could determine our own destiny.
Crawling to the AFL for money has limited our ability to determine our future and I want Demetriou with his hands off our club and us being self sufficient again..if Brown and his crew can do that then they get my vote....Smorgon has sold us out to the AFL and is nothing but a puppet...

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Brown and I have been in extensive discussions since I posted this on August 2:



Ref: http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11743

Oh my.............!













kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

It's important to not look at the Brown article in isolation. I believe he is simply starting a movement, that will hopefully lead to substantial and sustainable change at board level. Brown wasn't noted for his media profile, so this interview is notable for that fact.

This article can hardly drag our club further down, but it maybe the foundation for the revolution most of us are wanting.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

This is what I want.

I want Fraser Brown and whomever else he's involved with to take a proper stand.

I want a ticket formed and a petition to force an EGM.

I want it to happen sooner rather than later.

I want those who keep making noises about putting up money to offer to do so publicly via the new ticket.

I want the members to hear what's being offered and vote.

If Brown and his group can't do this then they're about as useful as the board we've got now. It's one thing to tinker at the edges and offer conditional assistance but what's needed is a committed move to overthrow this board and start rebuilding off-field properly. On-field will follow.

There have been many people mentioned as possible agitators/benefactors over the last couple of years. Now is the time for them to put up.

Roll your sleeves up and get dirty now fellas.

Do it.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I have been critical of the Board for a long time and would be happy to see Smorgon ousted...

However - I do not want JE strawmen running the club in the JE way of things "we do not rebuild at Carlton", "f..k the AFL and the salary cap, where is the brown paper bag". Some of the "old Carlton spirit" being promoted smacks of this. Synbad has been right when saying that football has changed and you have to play by the new rules, use the draft etc.

I am concerned that some of the people in the "Brown faction" are too much of the JE mould. I hope I am wrong, but we need to be careful who we put in charge.