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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:03 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
Braithy wrote:
and my point about it being inexplicable was the use of charlie and cripps there as well.

but you conveniently cherry pick that info out of my original post. but carry on ...


Sorry but if I was to spend my time refuting your incorrect posts, I'd be here all day. See your answer below.

Braithy wrote:
and that's fine and all if you want come up with (wrong) excuses about McKay in the ruck on friday night. but please explain and defend bolton's decision to run our two greatest assets in the ruck before mcKay was put there (charles & Patrick)?


McKay went into the ruck after the second goal of the game. Kreuzer jogged off and McKay took the centre bounce.
You're just embarrassing yourself now.

"Hang on, hang on, OK, I was wrong there, but what about this point huh? Huh? Oh, OK but what about this point then?" :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:23 am 
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Harry Vallence
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There are a lot of confusing things happening at present. This is our purgatory and we have to deal with it.

The club had a poor list three years ago and has done nothing but take the good ones (and some spuds) from Bolton to sell for the future.

I remain confident that future is there. Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Weitering, Fisher, Dow, Silvagni, O'Brien, SPS, Williamson, Kennedy, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Pickett, McCreadie and Byrne have long term value in them. None is older than 24.

Others may make it too.

We have parts to add - we desperately need midfielders to add depth through the middle. They are the easiest to get and the quickest to develop. Therefore it was the last part SOS focused on.

Our club is in a position not dissimilar to GWS in 2013. They won one game. Sheedy left. Everyone thought they were a waste of space. There are many similarities with us now. Not the least of which is SOS.

GWS spent hard and liberally at the top end of the draft. There were hits and there were misses. They worked on the belief that the more you take the more likely you are to get it right. They did not (in the early days) waste too many picks on other club's stars. They recruited has-beens and never-weres to fill the gaps, provide senior experience and leadership.

Now the GWS experiment has not (yet) born the ultimate fruit, although there are a couple of reasons for this: one, the loss of Allan and SOS - after this, I think they went too hard for experienced talent with high picks and gave away too many too easily. Two, injuries have taken a massive toll. No one doubts the club is in a good space though.

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).

I am confident we are on the right track. We must be what we are historically not: patient. There have been massive improvements this year despite the W/L column (Cripps, Curnow, Harry, Dow, Fisher etc). It is (slowly) coming together. So long as we stay the path, I am confident it will come.

We also still need to hit the draft, not trade for the now. I am fine with free agents if they come but other than that, patience and purpose are the words.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:30 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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fmurphy30 wrote:
There are a lot of confusing things happening at present. This is our purgatory and we have to deal with it.

The club had a poor list three years ago and has done nothing but take the good ones (and some spuds) from Bolton to sell for the future.

I remain confident that future is there. Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Weitering, Fisher, Dow, Silvagni, O'Brien, SPS, Williamson, Kennedy, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Pickett, McCreadie and Byrne have long term value in them. None is older than 24.

Others may make it too.

We have parts to add - we desperately need midfielders to add depth through the middle. They are the easiest to get and the quickest to develop. Therefore it was the last part SOS focused on.

Our club is in a position not dissimilar to GWS in 2013. They won one game. Sheedy left. Everyone thought they were a waste of space. There are many similarities with us now. Not the least of which is SOS.

GWS spent hard and liberally at the top end of the draft. There were hits and there were misses. They worked on the belief that the more you take the more likely you are to get it right. They did not (in the early days) waste too many picks on other club's stars. They recruited has-beens and never-weres to fill the gaps, provide senior experience and leadership.

Now the GWS experiment has not (yet) born the ultimate fruit, although there are a couple of reasons for this: one, the loss of Allan and SOS - after this, I think they went too hard for experienced talent with high picks and gave away too many too easily. Two, injuries have taken a massive toll. No one doubts the club is in a good space though.

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).

I am confident we are on the right track. We must be what we are historically not: patient. There have been massive improvements this year despite the W/L column (Cripps, Curnow, Harry, Dow, Fisher etc). It is (slowly) coming together. So long as we stay the path, I am confident it will come.

We also still need to hit the draft, not trade for the now. I am fine with free agents if they come but other than that, patience and purpose are the words.


:clap: :thanks:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:32 am 
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Bruce Doull
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fmurphy30 wrote:
There are a lot of confusing things happening at present. This is our purgatory and we have to deal with it.

The club had a poor list three years ago and has done nothing but take the good ones (and some spuds) from Bolton to sell for the future.

I remain confident that future is there. Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Weitering, Fisher, Dow, Silvagni, O'Brien, SPS, Williamson, Kennedy, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Pickett, McCreadie and Byrne have long term value in them. None is older than 24.

Others may make it too.

We have parts to add - we desperately need midfielders to add depth through the middle. They are the easiest to get and the quickest to develop. Therefore it was the last part SOS focused on.

Our club is in a position not dissimilar to GWS in 2013. They won one game. Sheedy left. Everyone thought they were a waste of space. There are many similarities with us now. Not the least of which is SOS.

GWS spent hard and liberally at the top end of the draft. There were hits and there were misses. They worked on the belief that the more you take the more likely you are to get it right. They did not (in the early days) waste too many picks on other club's stars. They recruited has-beens and never-weres to fill the gaps, provide senior experience and leadership.

Now the GWS experiment has not (yet) born the ultimate fruit, although there are a couple of reasons for this: one, the loss of Allan and SOS - after this, I think they went too hard for experienced talent with high picks and gave away too many too easily. Two, injuries have taken a massive toll. No one doubts the club is in a good space though.

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).

I am confident we are on the right track. We must be what we are historically not: patient. There have been massive improvements this year despite the W/L column (Cripps, Curnow, Harry, Dow, Fisher etc). It is (slowly) coming together. So long as we stay the path, I am confident it will come.

We also still need to hit the draft, not trade for the now. I am fine with free agents if they come but other than that, patience and purpose are the words.

NO!!!! COACH BAD!!!!! SAKC COACH BAD NOW MAKE BLOOS GOOD!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:06 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:

McKay went into the ruck after the second goal of the game. Kreuzer jogged off and McKay took the centre bounce.
You're just embarrassing yourself now.

"Hang on, hang on, OK, I was wrong there, but what about this point huh? Huh? Oh, OK but what about this point then?" :lol:



on the subject of embarrassing yourself. Charlie was in the ruck after kreuzer went off, not Harry. wowee. you'd argue black was white just for the hell of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:15 am 
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Craig Bradley
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fmurphy30 wrote:

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).




i'm not sure throwing out bolton equates to winding up the club. bolton is not carlton.

... in hindsight, bolton was the riskiest coaching appointment we've ever made. at least brittain served a lengthy apprenticeship under Parkin before we gave a non-afl-playing coach the keys.

I agree with everything else you said. we have the talent and we need to develop them accordingly. something which isn't happening right now; which also warrants bolton to be looked long and hard at, as to whether he's the right coach for us. like right now, what even is bolton's vision for us? how does he want us to play? why are we the league's worst skilled and unforced error team (i mean with all that talent, we've drafted, it's baffling!)

imo; rookie head coach, rookie ceo and rookie president is a bridge too far. our women's, men's and Ants teams are all playing like we're rudderless, because we are rudderless right now. we're void of all leadership and experience.

Trigg and Craig being released was that vital part of the experience puzzle the current front office and coaching staff is lacking ... we need to correct that (and now) more than we need to worry if our kids will make it or not.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:44 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Braithy wrote:
fmurphy30 wrote:

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).




i'm not sure throwing out bolton equates to winding up the club. bolton is not carlton.

... in hindsight, bolton was the riskiest coaching appointment we've ever made. at least brittain served a lengthy apprenticeship under Parkin before we gave a non-afl-playing coach the keys.

I agree with everything else you said. we have the talent and we need to develop them accordingly. something which isn't happening right now; which also warrants bolton to be looked long and hard at, as to whether he's the right coach for us. like right now, what even is bolton's vision for us? how does he want us to play? why are we the league's worst skilled and unforced error team (i mean with all that talent, we've drafted, it's baffling!)

imo; rookie head coach, rookie ceo and rookie president is a bridge too far. our women's, men's and Ants teams are all playing like we're rudderless, because we are rudderless right now. we're void of all leadership and experience.

Trigg and Craig being released was that vital part of the experience puzzle the current front office and coaching staff is lacking ... we need to correct that (and now) more than we need to worry if our kids will make it or not.


I can only assume you're not aware of Boltons lengthy apprenticeship at Hawthorn...?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:51 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7284
Rexy wrote:
Braithy wrote:
fmurphy30 wrote:

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).




i'm not sure throwing out bolton equates to winding up the club. bolton is not carlton.

... in hindsight, bolton was the riskiest coaching appointment we've ever made. at least brittain served a lengthy apprenticeship under Parkin before we gave a non-afl-playing coach the keys.

I agree with everything else you said. we have the talent and we need to develop them accordingly. something which isn't happening right now; which also warrants bolton to be looked long and hard at, as to whether he's the right coach for us. like right now, what even is bolton's vision for us? how does he want us to play? why are we the league's worst skilled and unforced error team (i mean with all that talent, we've drafted, it's baffling!)

imo; rookie head coach, rookie ceo and rookie president is a bridge too far. our women's, men's and Ants teams are all playing like we're rudderless, because we are rudderless right now. we're void of all leadership and experience.

Trigg and Craig being released was that vital part of the experience puzzle the current front office and coaching staff is lacking ... we need to correct that (and now) more than we need to worry if our kids will make it or not.


I can only assume you're not aware of Boltons lengthy apprenticeship at Hawthorn...?



i can only assume you would be aware of the differences of doing an apprenticeship internally, and doing one externally?

brittain was constantly monitored and assessed here and was being deliberately groomed to be the parkin heir. whereas, bolton was one of 110 or so line coaches in the afl aspiring to make the step up to head coach.

that there, is a fairly significant difference, yeah?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:53 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28227
Braithy wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Braithy wrote:
fmurphy30 wrote:

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).




i'm not sure throwing out bolton equates to winding up the club. bolton is not carlton.

... in hindsight, bolton was the riskiest coaching appointment we've ever made. at least brittain served a lengthy apprenticeship under Parkin before we gave a non-afl-playing coach the keys.

I agree with everything else you said. we have the talent and we need to develop them accordingly. something which isn't happening right now; which also warrants bolton to be looked long and hard at, as to whether he's the right coach for us. like right now, what even is bolton's vision for us? how does he want us to play? why are we the league's worst skilled and unforced error team (i mean with all that talent, we've drafted, it's baffling!)

imo; rookie head coach, rookie ceo and rookie president is a bridge too far. our women's, men's and Ants teams are all playing like we're rudderless, because we are rudderless right now. we're void of all leadership and experience.

Trigg and Craig being released was that vital part of the experience puzzle the current front office and coaching staff is lacking ... we need to correct that (and now) more than we need to worry if our kids will make it or not.


I can only assume you're not aware of Boltons lengthy apprenticeship at Hawthorn...?



i can only assume you would be aware of the differences of doing an apprenticeship internally, and doing one externally?

brittain was constantly monitored and assessed here and was being deliberately groomed to be the parkin heir. whereas, bolton was one of 110 or so line coaches in the afl aspiring to make the step up to head coach.

that there, is a fairly significant difference, yeah?


nah


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:59 am 
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Craig Bradley
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haha. rexy is taking our 2 wins from the last 26 games very well at all. he's gone catatonic on us.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:07 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
fmurphy30 wrote:
There are a lot of confusing things happening at present. This is our purgatory and we have to deal with it.

The club had a poor list three years ago and has done nothing but take the good ones (and some spuds) from Bolton to sell for the future.

I remain confident that future is there. Curnow, McKay, Cripps, Weitering, Fisher, Dow, Silvagni, O'Brien, SPS, Williamson, Kennedy, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Pickett, McCreadie and Byrne have long term value in them. None is older than 24.

Others may make it too.

We have parts to add - we desperately need midfielders to add depth through the middle. They are the easiest to get and the quickest to develop. Therefore it was the last part SOS focused on.

Our club is in a position not dissimilar to GWS in 2013. They won one game. Sheedy left. Everyone thought they were a waste of space. There are many similarities with us now. Not the least of which is SOS.

GWS spent hard and liberally at the top end of the draft. There were hits and there were misses. They worked on the belief that the more you take the more likely you are to get it right. They did not (in the early days) waste too many picks on other club's stars. They recruited has-beens and never-weres to fill the gaps, provide senior experience and leadership.

Now the GWS experiment has not (yet) born the ultimate fruit, although there are a couple of reasons for this: one, the loss of Allan and SOS - after this, I think they went too hard for experienced talent with high picks and gave away too many too easily. Two, injuries have taken a massive toll. No one doubts the club is in a good space though.

That is our benchmark, I believe. We are losing and losing badly but there is a plan. Throwing out Bolton would be foolish and you may as well wind up the club if you do this. I think it is time for new ideas and new assistants. This should happen every couple of years (look at the Hawks).

I am confident we are on the right track. We must be what we are historically not: patient. There have been massive improvements this year despite the W/L column (Cripps, Curnow, Harry, Dow, Fisher etc). It is (slowly) coming together. So long as we stay the path, I am confident it will come.

We also still need to hit the draft, not trade for the now. I am fine with free agents if they come but other than that, patience and purpose are the words.


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:08 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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If I'm catatonic, you must be a raving lunatic. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:12 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:

McKay went into the ruck after the second goal of the game. Kreuzer jogged off and McKay took the centre bounce.
You're just embarrassing yourself now.

"Hang on, hang on, OK, I was wrong there, but what about this point huh? Huh? Oh, OK but what about this point then?" :lol:



on the subject of embarrassing yourself. Charlie was in the ruck after kreuzer went off, not Harry. wowee. you'd argue black was white just for the hell of it.


I'm not going to keep arguing and derail the thread.
AFAIC, after the second St Kilda goal, Kreuzer jogged off the ground and number 10 took the centre bounce.
Someone else can settle it and one of us will look like a flower. If it's me, I'll apologise and admit i was wrong. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:14 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Rexy wrote:
If I'm catatonic, you must be a raving lunatic. :thumbsup:



nah ... just don't believe bolton is the guy who's taking us anywhere. lots of murmurs out there which supports this, too.


Last edited by Braithy on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:16 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7284
Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:

McKay went into the ruck after the second goal of the game. Kreuzer jogged off and McKay took the centre bounce.
You're just embarrassing yourself now.

"Hang on, hang on, OK, I was wrong there, but what about this point huh? Huh? Oh, OK but what about this point then?" :lol:



on the subject of embarrassing yourself. Charlie was in the ruck after kreuzer went off, not Harry. wowee. you'd argue black was white just for the hell of it.


I'm not going to keep arguing and derail the thread.
AFAIC, after the second St Kilda goal, Kreuzer jogged off the ground and number 10 took the centre bounce.
Someone else can settle it and one of us will look like a flower. If it's me, I'll apologise and admit i was wrong. :thumbsup:



cool. apology accepted, mate.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:33 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
Mckay took the first 3 centre bounces after Kreuzer went off.

Curnow took the next one.

I agree we should never have thrown Curnow in there & that Mckay was going to relieve regardless


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:39 am 
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Craig Bradley
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ok, blue vein. what's your address mate?

i'll be over this arvy with alcoholic peace offerings, which will go great with whatever you're cooking me for dinner tonight.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6658
Braithy wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Dominator_7 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
The club is going to stick it's head up its arse when it comes to Bolton.
Unless MLG gets ousted Bolton will stay.
What they should do is set him trigger points for his departure.
Suggest the following
2019
Win one of the first 3 games
Have 4 wins by round 11
Have 8 wins for the season

Fail to meet any its on your bike back to Tassie

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


The fact all these players are recommitting to the Club tells you all you need to know about what the players themselves really think of Bolts and how much they’ve bought into his plan.
End of arguement.


:clap:

And I'd like to add to this and say, were you all happy with how the team was progressing last year? And if so, what has changed since then? Here's a clue.....it's not the coaching!

Bing Bing Bing....that's right.....injuries and no Gibbs (who most of you kept saying how crap he was for us).



haha. shit. Cripps needs to recommit before you start singing that song.

... last year the players were visibly buying into what bolton was selling. they were playing tough and hard at the ball and they never rolled over for any game outside the port game in adelaide.

this year, they've stopped running, stopped tackling and basically stopped playing with any kind of effort. players - stud draft picks - are regressing right before our eyes. but you know it's there and that they can all play. they turned up against Essendon**, pies and sydney. proving that injuries don't effect or reflect on effort.

right now; we are playing with less effort and less commitment than at any stage under malthouse. if the coach isn't getting the effort out of players each and every week as a minimum baseline criteria ... the coach hasta go.


What has Cripps got to do with what I've said?

Why can't you just look at the facts.......we have a ton of injuries and we are mainly playing kids and underdone players with a game plan based on a lot less injuries to key defenders, hence the inconsistency in effort on a weekly basis. It's just not that hard, Bolton even said he had to send Dow back on the field even when he was totally stuffed. I'm pretty sure this is not the ideal position for any coach to ask that of a first year.

And you and your mates want to sack the coach again FFS and what? Send us back another 3 years so we can be here again singing the same tune about the next coach because we haven't really given them a chance. We were told a 5 year plan from the start and this year was always going to be the hardest, it just so happened we've been riddled with injuries and it has been total chaos.

If this time next year we are in the same position with little injuries then you might have a valid point, but not now! You need to let this sacking the coach thing every time go, it's destroying what's left of the club!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
Braithy wrote:
ok, blue vein. what's your address mate?

i'll be over this arvy with alcoholic peace offerings, which will go great with whatever you're cooking me for dinner tonight.


The weak apology I expected. :lol:

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:31 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Posts: 20076
The Duke wrote:
Simple question - If Bolts walked out of the club tomorrow, would any club offer him the position of head coach?


If Dew walked out of GC would anyone offer him the head coach role?

Just remember these guys were high end targets before becoming head coach, in fact Bolton was head coach of a Premiership team for 5 games.


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