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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Blue Vain wrote:
Why don't you try enjoying the ride instead of wallowing with the rest of the negative Nancy's? There is no perfect list. THere's always opportunities for every team to improve. We're currently 3rd on the ladder and Sam Walsh hasn't played a game. Life's pretty good. :wink:


Are you enjoying the ride?

What’s happening isn’t a surprise due to many of the reasons mentioned which you chose to ignore…

We’ve won 7 of our last 18 games, that ain’t good!!!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17937
ColourMan wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Why don't you try enjoying the ride instead of wallowing with the rest of the negative Nancy's? There is no perfect list. THere's always opportunities for every team to improve. We're currently 3rd on the ladder and Sam Walsh hasn't played a game. Life's pretty good. :wink:


Are you enjoying the ride?

What’s happening isn’t a surprise due to many of the reasons mentioned which you chose to ignore…

We’ve won 7 of our last 18 games, that ain’t good!!!



Have you been hiding under your blankie for 3 weeks waiting to bring that up? :lol:

Quote the whole post, don't be selective. Your rant was about Austin. You bagged him about his incompetence and his inability to manage a list. If anyone thinks our problems are due to Austin, they're running an agenda. Have a look at the top 20 draft picks bought in by SOS currently running around in the VFL or playing elsewhere because they were busts. Philp, Kemp, Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, SPS. All top 20 picks. Half of them top 10!
Compared to when SOS left, our list IS much better.

I look at yesterdays game and their small forwards torched us. Butler kicked 3 (You remember him, the guy SOS didn't want?) Hill, Higgins and Gresham who all played forward at various stages had a goal assist each and kicked another 2 goals between them! That's a fair contribution!
Meanwhile our 2 All Australian small defenders are out injured and our 2 best ball using defenders (Williams and Boyd) were also unavailable.
So with Nick Newman who has been playing excellent footy, we have 5 high quality small defenders on our list. 1 is available.
Would you like more? I suppose we could have used Brodie Kemp as an option but guess where his value has been? You guessed it. VFL.

Meanwhile Matt Kennedy is playing on Dan Butler and gets torched with 2 goals in a couple of minutes. Is that Austin's fault? At other stages both Kennedy and Cerra are playing half back. So is that Nick Austins doing or Aaron Hamill's?

So no, I'm not currently enjoying the ride but I'm not sooking up and sacking everyone at the club. We're one of the most injury decimated clubs and we're still in the top 8. I look at the past 3 premiers sitting below us on the ladder and know we're 6 rounds into the season.
Life throws up as many challenges as it does bouquets. Adversity builds resilience. And some of us definitely need some.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:55 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14264
Location: Sydney
Good post, BV. This place has been nauseating this weekend, I really think some people just live to sook.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:10 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 6047
Blue Vain wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Why don't you try enjoying the ride instead of wallowing with the rest of the negative Nancy's? There is no perfect list. THere's always opportunities for every team to improve. We're currently 3rd on the ladder and Sam Walsh hasn't played a game. Life's pretty good. :wink:


Are you enjoying the ride?

What’s happening isn’t a surprise due to many of the reasons mentioned which you chose to ignore…

We’ve won 7 of our last 18 games, that ain’t good!!!



Have you been hiding under your blankie for 3 weeks waiting to bring that up? :lol:

Quote the whole post, don't be selective. Your rant was about Austin. You bagged him about his incompetence and his inability to manage a list. If anyone thinks our problems are due to Austin, they're running an agenda. Have a look at the top 20 draft picks bought in by SOS currently running around in the VFL or playing elsewhere because they were busts. Philp, Kemp, Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, SPS. All top 20 picks. Half of them top 10!
Compared to when SOS left, our list IS much better.

I look at yesterdays game and their small forwards torched us. Butler kicked 3 (You remember him, the guy SOS didn't want?) Hill, Higgins and Gresham who all played forward at various stages had a goal assist each and kicked another 2 goals between them! That's a fair contribution!
Meanwhile our 2 All Australian small defenders are out injured and our 2 best ball using defenders (Williams and Boyd) were also unavailable.
So with Nick Newman who has been playing excellent footy, we have 5 high quality small defenders on our list. 1 is available.
Would you like more? I suppose we could have used Brodie Kemp as an option but guess where his value has been? You guessed it. VFL.

Meanwhile Matt Kennedy is playing on Dan Butler and gets torched with 2 goals in a couple of minutes. Is that Austin's fault? At other stages both Kennedy and Cerra are playing half back. So is that Nick Austins doing or Aaron Hamill's?

So no, I'm not currently enjoying the ride but I'm not sooking up and sacking everyone at the club. We're one of the most injury decimated clubs and we're still in the top 8. I look at the past 3 premiers sitting below us on the ladder and know we're 6 rounds into the season.
Life throws up as many challenges as it does bouquets. Adversity builds resilience. And some of us definitely need some.

:clap:

There’s some posters really throwing their toys out of the pram at the moment. Nobody is happy about yesterday’s loss, and I (+ others) have been banging on for months about how much improvement is still required, but pulling the SAKC routine at this point is unhelpful and boring.

For balance though, I will say that Austin is not entirely blameless - SOS made some good choices and some bad ones. Austin has made some good choices and some bad ones.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:27 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10373
Location: Coburg
and I'd add yes Kennedy/Cerra playing back did my head in so why not play Kemp, or play Acres back and play Binns? I agree injuries are hurting but so is the lack of confidence, flair if you will. It can be fixed but we may have to take a couple of steps back to go forward, give the kids a go, find a better team balance.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:30 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35648
Location: Half back flank
I'll be right by tomorrow but I'm definitely planning on sulking all day today

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:15 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:02 pm
Posts: 13149
Location: Melbourne
CK95 wrote:
I'll be right by tomorrow but I'm definitely planning on sulking all day today
Me too. @#$%&! Sunday arvo losses!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:56 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Our best 28 is roughly (some based on potential)

B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Martin McKay Durdin
F: Curnow TDK Motlop
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Walsh
Int: Cerra Docherty Kennedy S.Durdin Cowan Carroll Newman Kemp Owies Cottrell

Lemmy O'Keefe Mirkov Binns Cincotta I would keep as they show good signs
Silvagni I would keep and play him in defence. It's his best role
Martin has to be a question mark because of fitness but has a contract
I would trade TDK for the right deal

That is a bloody good side. It's after this we fall apart and need to address from the mid season draft

The rest I would delist. 10 changes at years end. Some draft, FA, some SSP and some DFA. I would love Himmelberg
Target a KPP and an X factor forward or two but some more mids. Make skills a key selection criteria


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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:41 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35648
Location: Half back flank
I favour a mini rebuild. Maybe we need to trade out a good player like the Dogs did with Ryan Griffin.

And target goal kicking mids/classy ball users

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7438
Location: Bendigo
Two changes have already been made - Cincotta & O’Keeffe.

We’re jam-packed in the TPP with McGovern’s earn the only moveable piece. Marchbank & Plowman might be on a bit more than expected, but still (surely) under the average. It couldn’t be more than $1m across the three of them, so net $700k (the list spot earns $100k no matter who it is). A good chunk of that has probably already gone.

We have one pick (hopefully in the teens) inside the first 60. We used our 2nd and 3rd picks on Cowan & Acres.

I don’t think we’ll trade our first pick next year. The Camporeale boys look like 25-40 types to me, so keeping that first pick (hopefully late teens) makes more sense.

De Koning might earn us a pick in the teens or early 20s. McGovern, Plowman & Dow might be worth 50-70, in which case they might be more valuable to us.

Not much collateral.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:28 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24612
Location: Kaloyasena
CK95 wrote:
I favour a mini rebuild. Maybe we need to trade out a good player like the Dogs did with Ryan Griffin.

And target goal kicking mids/classy ball users

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk




We do need a mini rebuild but it should be in the coaches box not the playing list.


:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:41 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17937
FarmerBlue wrote:
Our best 28 is roughly (some based on potential)

B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Martin McKay Durdin
F: Curnow TDK Motlop
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Walsh
Int: Cerra Docherty Kennedy S.Durdin Cowan Carroll Newman Kemp Owies Cottrell

Lemmy O'Keefe Mirkov Binns Cincotta I would keep as they show good signs
Silvagni I would keep and play him in defence. It's his best role
Martin has to be a question mark because of fitness but has a contract
I would trade TDK for the right deal

That is a bloody good side. It's after this we fall apart and need to address from the mid season draft

The rest I would delist. 10 changes at years end. Some draft, FA, some SSP and some DFA. I would love Himmelberg
Target a KPP and an X factor forward or two but some more mids. Make skills a key selection criteria


So Silvagni isn't in our best 28?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:48 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6316
If you look at the last 5 years we have recruited
McGovern
Williams
Martin
Pittonet
Durdin
Acres
Cerra
Setterfield
Hewett
Young
And others I have missed
On various long term deals some which were ridiculous to start with
Some trading away picks giving up salary cap space with a vast degree of failure to small success with the aim to plug an obvious deficiency and at the same time overrating the kids we recruited particularly mids under SOSs watch
9 times out of 10 this type of recruiting doesn’t work
I’ve been saying it since we gave up 3 picks for McGovern in 2018

Time to rebuild
The list ain’t good enough no game plan or game plan


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21392
Location: North of the border
Should have gone harder for Papley

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 2:03 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3248
Blue Vain wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Why don't you try enjoying the ride instead of wallowing with the rest of the negative Nancy's? There is no perfect list. THere's always opportunities for every team to improve. We're currently 3rd on the ladder and Sam Walsh hasn't played a game. Life's pretty good. :wink:


Are you enjoying the ride?

What’s happening isn’t a surprise due to many of the reasons mentioned which you chose to ignore…

We’ve won 7 of our last 18 games, that ain’t good!!!



Have you been hiding under your blankie for 3 weeks waiting to bring that up? :lol:

Quote the whole post, don't be selective. Your rant was about Austin. You bagged him about his incompetence and his inability to manage a list. If anyone thinks our problems are due to Austin, they're running an agenda. Have a look at the top 20 draft picks bought in by SOS currently running around in the VFL or playing elsewhere because they were busts. Philp, Kemp, Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, SPS. All top 20 picks. Half of them top 10!
Compared to when SOS left, our list IS much better.

I look at yesterdays game and their small forwards torched us. Butler kicked 3 (You remember him, the guy SOS didn't want?) Hill, Higgins and Gresham who all played forward at various stages had a goal assist each and kicked another 2 goals between them! That's a fair contribution!
Meanwhile our 2 All Australian small defenders are out injured and our 2 best ball using defenders (Williams and Boyd) were also unavailable.
So with Nick Newman who has been playing excellent footy, we have 5 high quality small defenders on our list. 1 is available.
Would you like more? I suppose we could have used Brodie Kemp as an option but guess where his value has been? You guessed it. VFL.

Meanwhile Matt Kennedy is playing on Dan Butler and gets torched with 2 goals in a couple of minutes. Is that Austin's fault? At other stages both Kennedy and Cerra are playing half back. So is that Nick Austins doing or Aaron Hamill's?

So no, I'm not currently enjoying the ride but I'm not sooking up and sacking everyone at the club. We're one of the most injury decimated clubs and we're still in the top 8. I look at the past 3 premiers sitting below us on the ladder and know we're 6 rounds into the season.
Life throws up as many challenges as it does bouquets. Adversity builds resilience. And some of us definitely need some.



Agree with your comments - particularly injuries that have impacted our HB run.

I would add this - by the end of year we’ll have the full picture.

All club spokes people have said this year is about improving and growing with what we have - personnel and system. Vossy has been very open about it.

It’s a long season and we have much too come. However, at this point I’m yet to see any improvement in our system or can note one player that has grown markedly.

Credit that we have brought in Actes and we’re playing hollands and Cowan. However, we are yet to raise the bar on output which was our targeted bet with this list.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 3:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35648
Location: Half back flank
keogh wrote:
The list ain’t good enough no game plan or game plan



Agree but I'd add that we have no game plan

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 3:27 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Blue Vain wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Our best 28 is roughly (some based on potential)

B: Boyd Young McGovern
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Martin McKay Durdin
F: Curnow TDK Motlop
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Walsh
Int: Cerra Docherty Kennedy S.Durdin Cowan Carroll Newman Kemp Owies Cottrell

Lemmy O'Keefe Mirkov Binns Cincotta I would keep as they show good signs
Silvagni I would keep and play him in defence. It's his best role
Martin has to be a question mark because of fitness but has a contract
I would trade TDK for the right deal

That is a bloody good side. It's after this we fall apart and need to address from the mid season draft

The rest I would delist. 10 changes at years end. Some draft, FA, some SSP and some DFA. I would love Himmelberg
Target a KPP and an X factor forward or two but some more mids. Make skills a key selection criteria


So Silvagni isn't in our best 28?


Not for me


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:09 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2028
keogh wrote:
If you look at the last 5 years we have recruited
McGovern
Williams
Martin
Pittonet
Durdin
Acres
Cerra
Setterfield
Hewett
Young
And others I have missed
On various long term deals some which were ridiculous to start with
Some trading away picks giving up salary cap space with a vast degree of failure to small success with the aim to plug an obvious deficiency and at the same time overrating the kids we recruited particularly mids under SOSs watch
9 times out of 10 this type of recruiting doesn’t work
I’ve been saying it since we gave up 3 picks for McGovern in 2018

Time to rebuild

The list ain’t good enough no game plan or game plan


I suggested a mini rebuild about 2 - 3 years ago

I think that horse has bolted. Don’t be surprised if another rebuild is required

Too many failures at the draft table. Can’t afford to have continual misses with your early draft picks.

Reminds me of the Ratten era where we had some poor drafts and weren’t able to complement our top end with good players.

Although during Ratten’s era we did make 3 successive finals series.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:07 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2809
If we’re going to top the list up then we need to do it before the Tasi team comes in, we all know how many years drafts are compromised when new teams are introduced


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:12 pm 
Offline
Bob Chitty

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:40 pm
Posts: 893
Blue Vain wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Why don't you try enjoying the ride instead of wallowing with the rest of the negative Nancy's? There is no perfect list. THere's always opportunities for every team to improve. We're currently 3rd on the ladder and Sam Walsh hasn't played a game. Life's pretty good. :wink:


Are you enjoying the ride?

What’s happening isn’t a surprise due to many of the reasons mentioned which you chose to ignore…

We’ve won 7 of our last 18 games, that ain’t good!!!



Have you been hiding under your blankie for 3 weeks waiting to bring that up? :lol:

Quote the whole post, don't be selective. Your rant was about Austin. You bagged him about his incompetence and his inability to manage a list. If anyone thinks our problems are due to Austin, they're running an agenda. Have a look at the top 20 draft picks bought in by SOS currently running around in the VFL or playing elsewhere because they were busts. Philp, Kemp, Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, SPS. All top 20 picks. Half of them top 10!
Compared to when SOS left, our list IS much better.

I look at yesterdays game and their small forwards torched us. Butler kicked 3 (You remember him, the guy SOS didn't want?) Hill, Higgins and Gresham who all played forward at various stages had a goal assist each and kicked another 2 goals between them! That's a fair contribution!
Meanwhile our 2 All Australian small defenders are out injured and our 2 best ball using defenders (Williams and Boyd) were also unavailable.
So with Nick Newman who has been playing excellent footy, we have 5 high quality small defenders on our list. 1 is available.
Would you like more? I suppose we could have used Brodie Kemp as an option but guess where his value has been? You guessed it. VFL.

Meanwhile Matt Kennedy is playing on Dan Butler and gets torched with 2 goals in a couple of minutes. Is that Austin's fault? At other stages both Kennedy and Cerra are playing half back. So is that Nick Austins doing or Aaron Hamill's?

So no, I'm not currently enjoying the ride but I'm not sooking up and sacking everyone at the club. We're one of the most injury decimated clubs and we're still in the top 8. I look at the past 3 premiers sitting below us on the ladder and know we're 6 rounds into the season.
Life throws up as many challenges as it does bouquets. Adversity builds resilience. And some of us definitely need some.


Never let it be said again, that Half Back Flankers are a dime a dozen .... good ones are critical to team balance. like most things in life it takes a moment in time when you dont have it available for you to realise just how much you need them.


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