just like Alistar had everything under control in 2012, especially the 2012 GF where the Hawthorn midfield didnt kick a goal between them, whilst the swans midfield slammed on about 8 goals.

Come on Mr S, give ratts a little bit of credit....just a little bit - go on

The Hawks certainly credited Ratts with a lot of the 2013 GF success - but what woudl they know.

Apparently Clarkson just wanted to teach Ratts how to coach the midfield and had 400k to throw away

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..ratts is a very good midfield coach.. ..yes hawks kids have been good for years so on the surface it doesn't appear he did much, but not jut hawks, dee's spoke high when he did their midfield, and they played finals n midfield plays strong.. ..good assist, bad head....

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

fair comment...

ratts got some of his assistants wrong and didnt delegate enough.

No senior coach ticks all the boxes. Ratts had some obvious deficiencies as a senior coach that he didnt address. Unlikely to coach at that level again - but he isnt alone. Plenty of great players didnt make the coaching caper a success. Its a brutal business

strong partnership

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

this is about management of the club.
i think ts been a poorly managed club from top to bottom...

and that includes sticks ratten and everybody else who has taken part in calling the shots over that period we were supposed to be putting up the building blocks for the future.

now its too late....

i think those same people had a hand in the rise of mark judgejudy...
i still havent seen his blueprint into where he is taking us....

ive seen the new head of the afl outline what hes doing..... and hes not ceo yet either
why announce something thats going to be in a holding pattern for months???

weird

but again.... everything about what this club is sick

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the only thing thats missing in that photo is the collar around ratts neck... the ratt collar

cleary u can see who the head coach is there .......

and yes ratten good assistant...but that wasnt his role at this cub for around 6 years

his role was to create something... build something.... not leave a mess

but show that photo to anybody who doesnt know them.. everybody would know whos in charge there...

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the results reflect that...

so are you back pedaling on your claim that Ratts destroyed the Club permanently?

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i suppose there were Essendon* supporters that claimed Knights destroyed the club, and richmond fans who think that Wallace destroyed their club with his 5 year plan, and Harvey stuffed up Freo, and bailey stuffed up the demons...and Voss destroyed the Lions etc

Mr S, you cant beat a great partnership

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

i wouldnt mind thinking most coaches wouldnt bac themselves into coaching lewis mitchell hodge smith etc...... few all australians at hawthorn.

a huge hole outside first round picks at carlton..


the thing with ratten is they all played good footy before he got there.. and theyre not playing any style ive seen at carlton while ratts has been around... hes just a conduit... or they would be playing his style cretylus...

yes or no???

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so now its the players fault at carlton - not ratten?

incidentally, Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Smith hardly played midfield in their permiership year last year - they ran threw the midfield at the appropriate time and against the right opposition. watcht eh 2013 GF and the previous finals again. Especially the final against the cats the previous week in the prelim.

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and ratts cant beat 3 coaching premierships...
clarkson can.... not ratts

thats the point..

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read the comments made by the hawthorn players and officials re; Rattens input into the 2013 season - especially the Finals.

Thats why they head hunted him. To assist with one of Clarksons deficiencies. thats what good clubs do, and smart senior coaches accept.

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

so if everything rests with the senior coach you must be EXTREMELY dissapointed with the performance of the Great Mick Malthouse in his 18 months so far?

I cant keep up Mr S with the number of times you jump back and forwards on these quantum cause and effects

I am getting a philosophical head ache

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

its everybodys fault
but ratten built this team and list.. it was created in his image.
just as the hawthorn team was created in clarksons image when ratten went there as an assistant..
never heard of an assistant who created a team in his own image....

thats like saying our predicament is gavin browns fault

ratten presided over what our lists make up is today
leadership talent and everything in between.

in a year or so it moves away from ratten and into malthouses basket.

but there is always a context to everything

ratts was given everything
early picks
money
any assistant coaches he wanted...
long term security

he couldnt make it happen and left a hole

one thing you dont answer.. is who have we had pushing through over the last 5 years ???

and why not??

surely recruitment and development play a big role.. but... he tells them what to recruit.. profile wise...
and wernt you there when ratts told us bower and russell will be all australians the year he sacked bower and had russell playing ressies footy ?
how does a coach not understand the capabilities of his own troops?
he was there with them 3 or 4 years at that stage....

its not like he had just run into paul bower and jordan russell..

the rest of what youre talking about is crazy........ makes me giggle....

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So ratts didnt permanently destroy the club?

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

**** S C O R E--U P D A T E ****

Mr. S: 127
Mr. C: 119

(At the start of the year the scores were Mr S 126. to Mr C 24. You're in a bit of trouble Mr S, you better lift your game, I will hit the front soon and its not even half time)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

So who is Ratts? Is that Mark's nickname?

no he didnt.. he destroyed our list for the next 5 years... meaning its been crap for 13 and now another 5 is two decades... so hes been an integral part of destroying where the club will be for 20 years instead of 12...

right now we should have a club thats buoyant on field .. there should be a style of team we have... players in depth positions that we need and some kind of leadership

but by the time we might emerge out of this... a generation of supporters will be lost

and thats where ratten has a hand in it... its not fis fault hes crap... its his mate sticks that gave him the job

but ultimately he cant walk away from his part in history as a major reason why this club has a culture of mediocrity

ask me more questions.. but before you do answer mine

where is our depth coming through??
in 3 years time when all of our senior players are done and dusted where do we go from there?

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so with 2 decades plus of not having won a flag
and the next 5 years at least looking like lean pickings
dont kid yourselves about doing any kind of port.. its not going to happen...we will go backwards pretty fast soon.. till we steady ourselves and go forward but to do this we need mark to get everything right
ratten was part of the culture and i feel mark is also

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King, you're right of course wrong thread topic.

But ironically, seeing as Mark hasn't publicly spelt out his vision for the club, or a road map to achieve it, this thread is as good as any to discuss a very serious spiritual issue that plagues our once great club

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king kenny thats how mark fits into all this....

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