The arguments they are having now are the same they and all coaching teams have from time to time id say.

I have no confidence in any story i hear after what i saw yesterday. People are clinging to things.

Best thing the club can do is concentrate on winning as many games as possible for the rest of the year. All involved should be going for the same goal. The result at the end of the year can determine what happens to coaches, players and admin. Supporters should get united also.
If anyone within the club is not willing to commit to the cause they should put their hand up and say so and then the club should ask them to train elsewhere until the end of the year when a new coach can decide to invite them back or the old coach can trade them depending on the end of 2012 results.

I think you are right Club.

With the number of journo's now AFL accredited its hard to believe that if there was some issue or issues that they wouldn't have found at least a few of them.

BTW I think I heard there are 1500 AFL accredited journo's !!!

That's 1000 more than are registered to cover parliament.

That's a lot of idle hands and yet the amount of dirt stories are very small.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Therer's no proof of any shit fighting within the club other than what's posted by Ockham. And that was not specific. It may just be 2 coaches don't get along, and some of the players agree with one more than the other, I guess the start of a fracture.

But something is not right, despite a better performance in the last 2 rounds. Hasn't been right since the players were exposed as wimps against the Bumbers in round 4.

Now if we are to play for more honourable losses and try to win as many as possible, which sounds NICE, but if that's not good enough to get us into the finals, and I don't think it will be, then I say get Malthouse to douse us with that formula which helped him snag Pendles and Thomas and got them into 2 consecutive GF's with 2 years. We have a good core of players to build a great team, now let someone with experience make that happen: build a great team.

I'm sick of all this shit slinging. I want something to look forward to. This is truly a nightmare.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

If there is all this in fighting isnt this the shit that leading teams are employed to sort out
Obviously it is being exposed for the crock of shit it really is

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Leading team would work with gen x type players not the gen y players we recruit.

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"You're not gonna believe this. The guy killed 16 czechoslovakians. He was an interior decorator."

"His house looked like shit!"

While the optimists, pessimists and realists argued whether the glass was half full or empty, the opportunist drank it!

But who's the opportunist at Carlton? It seems the playing group think the glass is poisoned...despite the coaching group telling them it's the Holy Grail.

Are the coaches all on the same page (ratten/richardson)?

Are the players all on the same page?

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"You're not gonna believe this. The guy killed 16 czechoslovakians. He was an interior decorator."

"His house looked like shit!"

Only thing I know is that I wake up this morning after both scum and filth winning, clear now that Bummers have overtaken us without any no. 1 picks, Laidler doing his knee again and a NB team full of Carlton players scoring 2.9 for a game and performing to a standard that would get them beaten by Fev's Pigeons.......

In the meantime I am convinced, there will be no change at the head of the club, nor the coaching or administration.

Can somebody please make this stop? Please.

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

That's an open wound.

Therefore easy to identify and a fix can be devised.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Bloody hurts. All of it.

Yet Carlton beat Freo whilst they lost to Melbourne.

There should be bans handed out for mentioning number one picks like they're the only path to success. You're underrating Essendon*'s side and list if you think this way. The Bombers had Watson, Fletcher, Stanton (top ten pick), Hurley (top five pick), Melksham (top ten pick), Ryder (top ten pick), Myers (pick six), Heppell (pick six), Dempsey (top 20 pick), Monfries (first round pick), Carlisle (top 25 pick) and Jetta (top 20 pick) out there. Plus Crameri who they got lucky with after they picked him after Long, Hardingham and Silverlock. Not a bad side on paper, but not elite. Pears and Gumbleton are out of the side too, but might be cooked at Essendon*.

Hurts us absolutely. The players not so much.

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We are on our way back...

But that's the entire point, at least IMO we could have done better beyond our no. 1 picks. Essendon* shouldn't be ahead of us.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Draft position means nothing once the player joins the club.

It's about coaching and development.

Whether a player is taken at pick 1, 10 or 50 means nothing. It's simply a reflection of the perceived wisdom of those making the decision "at that time".

Every one of our best 10 to 15 players has shown they have the potential to be a game changer.

How's Walker going this year compared to last year?

Garlett has the skills to be one of the top small forwards in the league. This year?

Jamison's a shadow of his previous self.

Chris Yarran's clearly struggling whether due to injury issues or otherwise. Last year he looked like he could be one of the best players in the league within two or three years.

And so on...

Those four are two top ten picks and two rookies. Why should it matter now where they were picked? All four of them have shown they can contribute at the highest level.

All were in career best form within the last couple of years and all are struggling this year.

The recruiting can always improve but if the development and coaching aren't working then it'll make little difference.

We have so many players who have shown extraordinary skill levels at different times during their careers and yet almost none of them are doing it consistently.

That's not because we somehow managed only to draft "white bread" "nancy boy" "soft" footballers.

It's because we never taught them how to be hard, demanding, intense professionals who understand that when it's all over they're going to have regrets if something doesn't change.

I don't blame the players for this.

The club has clearly failed them.

What happens next is all that matters and doing nothing and thinking it's just injuries or drafting and that it'll all improve at some point doesn't cut it.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Just show some unity and fight club wide to the end of the season. Lets see what that can achieve. Changes will be made end of season but for now we need to show the qualities we want going into 2013 -14 and get a feel for what such qualities can achieve.

No smash it up and start again right now cop outs. That is just taking the easy road and showing the very characteristics our team show on the field that we criticise them for.

If all the coaches are on the same page I would be disappointed. That is fine when things are working but when they aren't it requires debate, challenging of notions and innovation. If ideas are presented that are not getting trial or constantly getting punted then there is a problem.

The development appears to be the big issue and I can't say I know who is responsible. Anyone? The other thing is the apparent absence of structures or some kind of succession planning. This is both coach and senior player responsibility and all have failed I think.

Some of my favourite sayings:

- Nero fiddles while Rome burns.
- Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- Tiling the bathroom while the house is on fire.

These are all apt at the moment.

You really have to take your heads out of the sand. Calls for club unity are great, but you know what - I'm going to call for club unity too. Those of you defending the status quo: stop rocking the boat. Get behind the vast majority of us who want to move the club forward. You are sabotaging us. It's time for us to all pull together now, and fix the problems.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

I think you're absolutely right GWS.

Of the myriad of things that contribute to sub-par performance, its been our player development that has been weakest.

Our guns are as good as any. It's our lesser lights that haven't come on. Almost no one at Carlton has come out of the blue and surprised us. Collingwood have been exceptional in developing their lower tier battlers into very solid contributors. They havent had any high draft picks since Thomas and Pendlebury (throw in Reid as well) yet they have managed to bring on a whole range of ordinary players and turn them into very good players. We pinched their development coach (Richardson) but we havent seen this bear fruit. Admittedly an exceptional game plan drilled and practiced repetitively can make ordinary players play above themselves, because everything becomes automatic. But by any measure, our player development has been extremely weak, among the weakest in the league, when one looks at what proportion of our mid to late draft picks have come on.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but this issue needs to be high on the list of any post season review.

Hate to say it but you are right but what you have to ask yourself is why tank

If it is all about development why do teams tank

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Of course, but it gives the side a greater chance of finding the game breakers.

You might get a champion as a rookie and a dud with the number 1 selection but the odds are against it. Why when discussing development do we have to resort to this logical fallacy that every player that makes their way on to an AFL list has roughly the same innate ability?

Yes, the odds are that other clubs are better at getting the best out of their players than we are but the odds are also good that they are better at managing what they have, in terms of drafting and recruiting resources, before the players get to the club. It's corner-cutting logic to think otherwise.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.