Yep, fair point, Hornet. Maybe it's just that last week's loss has brought the critics out and made them more vocal.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Fair enough. I'll try to avoid using that term in the future. I've used that term because if does sum up the way I see some people reacting.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Looks reasonable Melvey, good to see you positive and constructive. Can't agree wih Balme though. Maybe a Paul Hamilton

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Go BLues

...I'm sure we'd all like to use certain terms at certain times ...I know I've had to hold back quite a bit lately

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There's so much I could say...

They have a review at the end of every year.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Current Coaches

Adelaide FC – The Crows
Neil Craig

Brisbane Lions FC
Michael Voss.

Carlton FC – The Blues
Brett Ratten

Collingwood FC – The Magpies
Mick Malthouse

Essendon* FC – The Bombers
Matthew Knights

Fremantle FC – The Dockers
Mark Harvey

Geelong FC – The Cats
Mark (Bomber) Thompson.

Hawthorn FC – The Hawks
Alastair Clarkson

Kangaroos FC
Dean Laidley - Gone

Melbourne FC – The Demons
Dean Bailey

Port Adelaide FC – Port Power
Mark (Choco) Williams

Richmond FC – The Tigers
Terry Wallace - Gone

St. Kilda FC – The Saints
Ross Lyon

Sydney Swans FC
Paul Roos

West Coast Eagles FC
John Worsfold

Western Bulldogs FC
Rodney (Rocket) Eade

Add - Sheedy, Pagan, Thomas, Mathews, Barassi and Hafey,

Almost every one of these guys, to a man, have Coached or are coaching bottom teams in their careers. All have had supporters calling for their heads on a stick.

I suspect all those supporters have claimed the Coach has no direction, no game plan and no flippin idea. The large majority of those named have gone on to have great success along the way. Ratts will just be another in a long line who will get it right given time and patience, regardless of what some think at the moment.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

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Go BLues

Hmm... I haven't called for Ratts' head. Hell, I HOPE he makes it.

However, he should be feeling a solar flare type amount of heat at season's end.

Patience people; patience.

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Its becoming very clear that :

Cazzesman is correct.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

If such a (serious) review really took place you may find that Ratts's position is not that safe and that your search may then be extended to include a head coach. Doesnt Ratts have to shoulder responsibilty as well?

In any case fingers crossed we make the eight because anything short of that should mean Ratten be let go based on the goals he himself set at the start of the season.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

So why didn't Pagan get it right then?

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Cazz,

Your view that basically says ""sit and wait and be patient" may relflect your postion and your view the Carlton supporter base as rabid and willing to cut a coach at the first sign of non performance. This is not the case and disrespects supporters on here who have seen coaches come and go over many years. The criticisms levelled at Ratten are based on fundamental elements of a game plan and football execution that have been absent since the Fremantle game. (I won't list them again). You have to make a call on the evidence not on what might occur due to a perceived pattern of success with other coaches. What is going to make a coach successful ; time in the position or game plan, coaching smarts, player improvement?. I would say the latter. 40 games in is time enough to get a read on a coach. Ratten can not maintain his position based on current performance. It may lead to a 7th or 8th placed finish this year but it won't deliver Carlton sustained top 4 success. I think what you miss is the supporter base is saying to the club be proactive; either surround the coach with top assistants or look for a better option. We don't want to be in this postion in a years time. --- Credit where Credit is due the Ratten and match commitee sent a clear message to the playing group with this weeks selection

Cazz.. simple question.
Has Ratten got the most out of our playing list this season? Thats the fundamental test for every coach... Interested to hear your response.

Is it the coach or the players? The team rarely seems to really click for any period of time - in 2008 we at least had a few exciting quarters. We look good when we run with it, move the ball quickly and put pressure on but we dont seem to be able to sustain it. Too much slow stop start footy in many of our games - why can other teams slow us down but we struggle to do it to others?

Is it the coach or the players? We dont seem to have enough players with real grunt - a lot of quiet, non-demonstrative types that results in the energy levels often looking very flat. Who sparks us when the going gets tough - Judd, Eddie, ???

Is it the coach or the players? Too many of our players have just average pace and slow kicks (not bad, just slow through the air). Have we seen any improvement over time?

I really dont know - but I do wonder whether the current group of players and the current coach are really a marriage made in heaven - something needs to change if we are toachieve our potential.

No my view is a simple one and has nothing to do with any contact I have with the club. My view is simply based on the fact that history has shown some of the best and most respected coaches in our game have had their ups and downs, their slow starts and their poor finishes. Supporters have called for the axe on the vast majority of them along the way.

What that means is it's a tough gig and no-one has instant success. If they do they will be considered one out of the box and abit of a freak.

Of course none of this means that Ratts has any iron clad guarantee that he will succeed. It simple means that at this stage in his career Ratts is no better or worse than many others that have gone before him and many of those have gone on to succeed given some time.

That's my thoughts, plain and simple with abit of history as a supporting argument.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Malcolm Blight is probably a very good example as well

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Go BLues

The simple answer is no. But please don't tell me there are any simple answers in Coaching an AFL team. If it was a simple gig then anyone sitting on their couch at home could do it. Many think they could.

Having said NO, he is still getting far more out of them than Denis probably did and it is a 'work in progress'. Obvious the WIP is taking too long for many but let us consider the following........

You have 40+ Characters that you are trying to mould into a cohesive unit of 22 who can move an oval ball around a large paddock in an efficient manner for 120 minutes at break neck speed for about 8 months of the year. Yep that's easy to arrange.

Then you factor in The Media scrutiny, The Salary cap, The Drafting structure, Injuries, Player brain fades, Players personal issues, External issues, Suspensions, Bad umpiring decisions at a crucial stages and above all about 50 Ego's.

Plenty of the 44 have shown obvious improvement and are still improving every week. Some are obviously stagnent. Some are 1st year players and have a big pre-season ahead of them.

CFC spent 3 years at the bottom only a a short time ago. Rome wasn't built in a day, or a week or a month.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

He did at North. By the time he got to CFC he really only had two sticks to rub together and very little talent at his disposal. The Club was broke and on the brink of extinction.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

IMO Johnson isnt good enough
IMO Bentley isnt good enough
They have shown that in their AFL careers

Their form in the Bullants wasnt as good as Ellards and Andersons form
yet they are picked ahea of these 2

Why

What is Ratten's reasoning given he has the final say in selection

Now Cazzeman this question is directed at you
Rather than going on with me being overally negative
or that I am not involved with the club and havent coached or played as many games as Ratten so I dont have a flower clue
do you think its a good decision to play these 2 spuds over 2 guys who havent been given an opportunity this year but show potential.
Rattens reasoning IMO is that with Stevo and Scotland out he doesnt want too many immature bodies out there.

Thoughts