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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:08 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Bookie wrote:
If you don’t blame Bolts for injuries and depth selections, then can he and the cone movers who would take an assistants job under him, at least be blamed for not coaching basic skills and decision making?


:grin:


You do wonder at times how they earn their keep.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:15 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Although injuries have had an impact, I don't think it explains how bad we have been this year.

There is no semblance of decent ball movement. I can't recall too many passages of play where we looked like a team on the rise. In fact I haven't seen much of this over the last 3 years. Way too much stop kick football. It may keep you competitive but is not conducive to good player development and extracting talent from a team.

Give Bolts another year with a serious off season review of our football department including finding a replacement for McKay and changes to support staff such as Barker. Not sure what else you can do st this stage.

Also, if I hear the words 'green shoots' again I will spew. Bolts needs to move on from that rubbish.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:19 am 
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Robert Walls

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Blue Vain wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
To suggest our squad last night was "pretty balanced" is laughable. Multiple players playing out of position filling holes. Midfield depth playing defence, no ruckman after 10 minutes.

I love these suggestions that coaches can magically cover the absence of players with tactics and strategies. :lol:
Is it coincidence that the game Adelaide get Rory Atkins, Riley Knight and Eddie betts back into their side (a week after Sloane and Lynch return from long lay offs), they have a win against a top 8 side after losing 5 of 6?
Surprise, Surprise, Lynch kicks 4, Atkins has 28 and Eddie supplies the forward half pressure with 7 tackles.

The team coached by the most successful current coach went to the Gabba this season without Frawley, O'Meara and Rioli and they lose by 56 points. Yet our coach should be sacked when we go up there with half a team.
Yes we are terrible at the moment but have some perspective. Anyone who comments that injuries don't impact performance significantly has no idea about competitive sport.
We are impacted by injuries to key players significantly more than any other team. Fact. Compounding that is the fact we would have the worst depth in the AFL.
Kicking the shit out of the coach might make posters feel better but if anyone thinks a change of coach will bring better results at the moment, they're dreaming.
We don't have the talent on the park. That's it. The best coach in the history of the game won't fix that.


I don't disagree with the injuries one bit.

What I do find mind boggling watching the game is positioning. We still have 18 people out there yet there is:
1. never enough in F50 on the odd occasion the ball gets there
2. never enough between the arcs in proactive positions (either ready to counterattack or ready to run offensively)
3. loose men and overlap created at will
4. If we're covering space, why do we concede so many I50 marks/disposals etc?
5. Our midfield is weak BUT, how often do teams waltz out of a stoppage with superior numerical advantage bc our stoppage players leave the contest to go and defend rather than try and win the stoppage (and the opp STILL find a loose target)

It is TV smashing stuff. I can cope with better skilled players beating our players but when you can't even see our players anywhere within 5 metres of the opposition, you wonder WTF is going on

Maybe the stats will contradict my observations but our lack of intensity to run both ways stands out like the proverbials

Your thoughts on this?


I agree with the frustration but look at the team at the moment. How many last night would you have in our best 22 on current form?
I'd suggest Curnow x 2, Cripps, Fisher, Simpson, (O'Brien, SPS, McKay and Dow for experience), Murphy, Marchbank, Fisher. Kreuzer lasted 10 minutes so he's not included. That's 12 and it includes a number of youngsters who I've included generously for the future but most contribute very little on a consistent basis. Murphy has missed about 10 games, Marchbank is coming back from about 5 weeks out. 6 of the remaining best 12 are first or second year players who have at best 1 pre-season under their belt.

I agree there are never enough forwards but they're pushing back to assist the defence. Look how many goals our makeshift defenders conceded last night. Lamb, Thomas, Rowe, Silvagni with their lack of forward craft.
As for teams waltzing out of clearances, look at our ruck options last night. Charlie Curnow, McKay, Jones!
Between no ruckman and a 3rd string defence. They kicked 13.9 from forward half intercepts or forward half stoppages. What can you do about that other than push players back to support which reduces our opportunity to score.


I won't challenge your insights cause I reckon you know the game structure better than me.

I know it's simplistic but there are still 18 bodies out there. I reckon on half a dozen occasions from a stoppage, I saw the ball come to the ground and within 1 second, there were still 3 StK players within 5 metres of the ball drop zone ready to share the ball and take it forward and not one CFC 'body' within 3-5 metres.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:25 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
To suggest our squad last night was "pretty balanced" is laughable. Multiple players playing out of position filling holes. Midfield depth playing defence, no ruckman after 10 minutes.




balanced in the fact that our backline wasn't 6 slow talls; we went in with one ruck, and had a forward line that actually looked pretty good. two key targets and some guys who you would think would lock the ball in and crumb up the leftovers. we actually had some run out on the park, you know. modern footy and all.

our problem was Bolton ordered the forward line to move up the park. so when we finally won the ball, there was not one single player forward of that point.

chip sideways, chip sideways, turn it over is all Bolton's doing right now. it's tiresome and it's not about injuries.

injuries impact our wins/ loss column, nothing more. last season i was pretty thrilled in the direction we were taking, and it wasn't bcos we were winning. we were playing with heart and we had something resembling a gameplan. we had accountability.

this year, it's that horrible zone and our running, our marking our handballing behind players, our kicking into the man on the mark ... at times we look like an U10 side. and this is purely down to coaching.

even with all of our injuries we shouldn't be getting towelled up by 10 goals from the bottom sides.


bolton has to go. he's a career line coach, and history at some point will prove this to be the case. every year we give him, is a year further into the hole we go.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:52 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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With regards to the injuries the way I look at it is like this.
It's your birthday and the family has bought you the delicious looking cake.
You know that this cake is going to be the best tasting cake out.
However someone has put 44 candles on it and you have to blow these candles out.
But they are those trick candles and everytime you blow one out anothet re ignites.
You really want this cake but you simply cannot blow these candles out.
Bit like our playing group every time you think someone will return you are going to get your cake.
However whilst you are putting all your efforts to blowing out these candles.
There is a raging bushfire coming down the valley and its about to burn the whole housr down cake and all

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I call BS on the injury front.

Why has the development of players like SPS, SOS, Cunningham etc etc completly stalled. - Rising Star nominees last year, complete spud-cakes this year!
Ditto that of Weitering. A highly touted #1 draft pick that would probably struggle to get into the top 22 at any other team.

I find it hard to believe that the young talent we had last year have just overnight become crap players with no skill.


We, as a team, look have stagnated - in fact i reckon we've gone backwards. That's the coach right there.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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I don’t see how we can keep blaming the defenders when the inside 50 count is 67 to 36, and tackles inside 50 are 16 to 6.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney Blue wrote:
With regards to the injuries the way I look at it is like this.
It's your birthday and the family has bought you the delicious looking cake.
You know that this cake is going to be the best tasting cake out.
However someone has put 44 candles on it and you have to blow these candles out.
But they are those trick candles and everytime you blow one out anothet re ignites.
You really want this cake but you simply cannot blow these candles out.
Bit like our playing group every time you think someone will return you are going to get your cake.
However whilst you are putting all your efforts to blowing out these candles.
There is a raging bushfire coming down the valley and its about to burn the whole housr down cake and all

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
I agree with the frustration but look at the team at the moment. How many last night would you have in our best 22 on current form?
I'd suggest Curnow x 2, Cripps, Fisher, Simpson, (O'Brien, SPS, McKay and Dow for experience), Murphy, Marchbank, Fisher. Kreuzer lasted 10 minutes so he's not included. That's 12 and it includes a number of youngsters who I've included generously for the future but most contribute very little on a consistent basis. Murphy has missed about 10 games, Marchbank is coming back from about 5 weeks out. 6 of the remaining best 12 are first or second year players who have at best 1 pre-season under their belt.


With two Fishers in the team we really should be better than we are...

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
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sinbagger wrote:
I don’t see how we can keep blaming the defenders when the inside 50 count is 67 to 36, and tackles inside 50 are 16 to 6.


Valid points

After 3 years of the rebuild we have

no midfield - even though we have the best midfielder in the competition
no medium/small forwards


List management issue


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
bluedog wrote:
Bookie wrote:
If you don’t blame Bolts for injuries and depth selections, then can he and the cone movers who would take an assistants job under him, at least be blamed for not coaching basic skills and decision making?


:grin:


You do wonder at times how they earn their keep.


The kids weren't making nearly as many skill errors as the senior players like Murphy and Daisey. Can't blame Bolts and his team for that really.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Dow, SPS, Fisher, Mckay, Charlie, Marchbank, O'Brien, Kennedy, Pickett, Garlett, SOS & Polson have collectively played 289 games.
That's an average of 24 games over the 12 players. Some of these guys have had interrupted preseasons or have been injured during the year.
When they're supported by "senior players" like Rowe, Jones, Daisy, Shaw and Lamb it's not that hard to understand games like last night.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18087
The Duke wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
And then there is the disaster of what happens when we don't have the ball, our defensive zone is good for a laugh and I fail to see how that that is put down to injuries. It isn't going to magically sort itself out when Docherty and Williamson come back.


Really? Docherty, Williamson, Plowman, Ciaran Byrne, Alex Silvagni or even Weitering?
You don't think they'll be better equipped as defenders than Rowe, Lamb, Thomas, Jack Silvagni, Shaw who have probably played a total of 10 games in defence for us before this season. Coaches like Clarkson talk about lack of cohesion when one of 2 defenders are missing. What chance do our team have?


You're seriously overrating the ability of 5 of those 6. If SOJ, Lamb, Rowe or Thomas were injured, you'd have them listed too.

It's not the playing group so much as the plan.


Telling me who I'd have listed or where I rank players? :lol:
Most of the responses have been intelligent and thought provoking. Yours, adds nothing of value to the discussion.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18087
GWS wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I agree with the frustration but look at the team at the moment. How many last night would you have in our best 22 on current form?
I'd suggest Curnow x 2, Cripps, Fisher, Simpson, (O'Brien, SPS, McKay and Dow for experience), Murphy, Marchbank, Fisher. Kreuzer lasted 10 minutes so he's not included. That's 12 and it includes a number of youngsters who I've included generously for the future but most contribute very little on a consistent basis. Murphy has missed about 10 games, Marchbank is coming back from about 5 weeks out. 6 of the remaining best 12 are first or second year players who have at best 1 pre-season under their belt.


With two Fishers in the team we really should be better than we are...


Wishful thinking :lol:
He looks the goods, Fish. I love his smarts, his attitude and his tackling. A few could take a leaf out of his book.
He does a couple of things a game that no others can do. With games under his belt, he'll become a jet.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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ryan2000 wrote:
I call BS on the injury front.

Why has the development of players like SPS, SOS, Cunningham etc etc completly stalled. - Rising Star nominees last year, complete spud-cakes this year!.


Give me a break. How many RS nominees have actually improved this year?
Ryan Burton, Wayne Milera, Andrew McGrath. Rising star nominees/winner. Have they improved this season? It doesn't work that way. Burton was touted as unlucky not to win the award. He's playing under a triple premiership coach and struggling this year.
What about Zac Fisher, Charlie Curnow. Huge improvements on last year. Paddy Dow and O'Brien are showing great signs. The kids are the last of our problem. If anyone thinks our kids are an issue, they should get their eyes checked.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Melbourne
Effes wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
With regards to the injuries the way I look at it is like this.
It's your birthday and the family has bought you the delicious looking cake.
You know that this cake is going to be the best tasting cake out.
However someone has put 44 candles on it and you have to blow these candles out.
But they are those trick candles and everytime you blow one out anothet re ignites.
You really want this cake but you simply cannot blow these candles out.
Bit like our playing group every time you think someone will return you are going to get your cake.
However whilst you are putting all your efforts to blowing out these candles.
There is a raging bushfire coming down the valley and its about to burn the whole housr down cake and all

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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Very funny Effes. Very funny
As for 44 candles SB. Pants on fire :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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To be as poor as we currently are playing it has to be a number of things.

- Continuous injuries
- Confusing coaching methods
- Bush league playing talent


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rexy wrote:
To be as poor as we currently are playing it has to be a number of things.

- Continuous injuries
- Confusing coaching methods
- Bush league playing talent

Reckon it’s two things ... we have a midfield of one ... think about that ... one ... and we do not play with any semblance of consistent intensity ...

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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less time inside in the classroom

more time on the track with repetitive skills work and basic fundamentals of one on one footy

in essence, more simplicity for the remainder of the year


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
ryan2000 wrote:
I call BS on the injury front.

Why has the development of players like SPS, SOS, Cunningham etc etc completly stalled. - Rising Star nominees last year, complete spud-cakes this year!.


Give me a break. How many RS nominees have actually improved this year?
Ryan Burton, Wayne Milera, Andrew McGrath. Rising star nominees/winner. Have they improved this season? It doesn't work that way. Burton was touted as unlucky not to win the award. He's playing under a triple premiership coach and struggling this year.
What about Zac Fisher, Charlie Curnow. Huge improvements on last year. Paddy Dow and O'Brien are showing great signs. The kids are the last of our problem. If anyone thinks our kids are an issue, they should get their eyes checked.



Errr.......... :roll:

- Eric Hipwood / Hugh Luggage have certainly improved.
- Ditto Ben Ainsworth in a different role.

- I reckon that Luke Ryan at Fremantle is doing pretty well.

- Tim Taranto i reckon is developing quite nicely too.


All Nominations from 2017. All have improved.

SPS / SOS / Cunningham - gone backwards in comparison.

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