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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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camelboy wrote:
It's like the bump, if you elect to bump and you hit the head you're in trouble, regardless of how well you execute the bump.

If you pin the arms when tackling, and they were pinned, and your opponent gets knocked out after his head hits the ground you're in trouble. If Gray wasn't concussed it'd be no problem. But he was concussed and Gibbs' tackle was the cause of that injury. It doesn't matter that his technique of restricting Gray's arms was very good, it matters that Gray got knocked out and ultimately subbed from the game because of Gibbs' actions.

Some might believe it to be "soft", or that the game is "bowing to media pressure", but unless you've been in hibernation for the last few years you can't have missed the fact that the AFL is serious about protecting players from head injuries. You don't have to like it, but that's the way the game is being treated now.

I do think a 3 week suspension (down to 2 with the early plea) is harsh in comparison with other offences, but as I've said, if the price of our players tackling hard for four quarters is an isolated case here and there where a player gets suspended then so be it. I'd rather have that problem and a reputation that we're tough to play against than watching our players be weak at the contest and letting their opponents run free.

Gibbs being out for 2 weeks will have no material effect on our season. Let's embrace the fact that Gibbs showed some balls and hope he does it again and again and again.

So in the nba if u dunk on someone and fall on them you should be suspended? It is bs, this idea that you can do something, but if you hurt the other player you are suspended. It is bs. Dont agree with it. It is the crapest thought process ever invented. Where does this stop? The game is soft enough without this.

you cannot tackle anyone to the ground anymore. Maybe we play touch football.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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yep.
one would have been better,
but a rest will freshen him up nicely.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:27 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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TruBlueBrad wrote:
camelboy wrote:
It's like the bump, if you elect to bump and you hit the head you're in trouble, regardless of how well you execute the bump.

If you pin the arms when tackling, and they were pinned, and your opponent gets knocked out after his head hits the ground you're in trouble. If Gray wasn't concussed it'd be no problem. But he was concussed and Gibbs' tackle was the cause of that injury. It doesn't matter that his technique of restricting Gray's arms was very good, it matters that Gray got knocked out and ultimately subbed from the game because of Gibbs' actions.

Some might believe it to be "soft", or that the game is "bowing to media pressure", but unless you've been in hibernation for the last few years you can't have missed the fact that the AFL is serious about protecting players from head injuries. You don't have to like it, but that's the way the game is being treated now.

I do think a 3 week suspension (down to 2 with the early plea) is harsh in comparison with other offences, but as I've said, if the price of our players tackling hard for four quarters is an isolated case here and there where a player gets suspended then so be it. I'd rather have that problem and a reputation that we're tough to play against than watching our players be weak at the contest and letting their opponents run free.

Gibbs being out for 2 weeks will have no material effect on our season. Let's embrace the fact that Gibbs showed some balls and hope he does it again and again and again.


In isolation I have no issue with the suspension. If you elect to pin the arms and sling your opponent then you're responsible for the outcome....in this case, concussion.

The issue as always with anything the AFL and tribunal do, will be consistency.

If Fyfe or Rioli perform the same tackle, with the same outcome between now and the end of the season, will they receive the same penalty?

Going to be interesting to see how similar incidents are assessed.
One thing, there was no concussion in this case. He passed the concussion test and I would bet if this was a final he would have come back on the ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:30 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Aussie Rules football is dying a slow and steady death.
What we will have left is AFL TM

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Most other clubs would have appealed.
Gutless

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Burn the club to the ground.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Just watched the replay.
The goal we kicked starting at the 11 minutes to go point of the second quarter summed up the attacking phase of our last three weeks.
From the defensive 50 handballed, run out, accurate pass, run and carry and a long kick to the end of the square.
Fantastic passage of play.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Goltzenberg wrote:
]
So in the nba if u dunk on someone and fall on them you should be suspended? It is bs, this idea that you can do something, but if you hurt the other player you are suspended. It is bs. Dont agree with it. It is the crapest thought process ever invented. Where does this stop? The game is soft enough without this.

you cannot tackle anyone to the ground anymore. Maybe we play touch football.


This is a stupid analogy. Gibbs didn't accidentally fall on Gray. Gibbs tackled and that tackle drove Gray's head (and with the weight of Gibbs behind it) into the turf and knocked him out.

And the game is not soft.

But the brain can be damaged, tragically so, irreversibly so, and it is damaged with constant collisions and these men will allow that to occur because we teach them that getting your head driven into the turf is tough when it isn't. Toughness is about overcoming fear and given these footballers overcome their fear numerous times we need to try and protect their future selves, especially their fragile brains,

so

either rule out contact altogether

or headgear for all and diminish contact a lot more

or

when that contact then leads to a head high collision the person initiating the contact needs to be penalized to try and eradicate (as much as possible in this sport) such occurrences.

seriously get over it - or better yet, go run your head into a brick wall a few times to feel tough.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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camelboy wrote:
Wow, as far as sports "journalism" goes that's actually a pretty good piece from RoCo.

I liked this part:

Quote:
Patrick Cripps was already a standout, ranked second in the AFL for hard-ball gets among midfielders. But Graham, in particular, has been a far more significant influence over recent games, ranked second only to Cripps at Carlton for tackles since round nine, and fourth for clearances.


He ran, he ran so far away,
Opponents couldn't get away!

Lol...
Going to take him a while to lose that image 8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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In my mind I have slowly trained my brain to replace "Nick Graham" with "Flock of seagulls", it's almost immediate now. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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dannyboy wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
]
So in the nba if u dunk on someone and fall on them you should be suspended? It is bs, this idea that you can do something, but if you hurt the other player you are suspended. It is bs. Dont agree with it. It is the crapest thought process ever invented. Where does this stop? The game is soft enough without this.

you cannot tackle anyone to the ground anymore. Maybe we play touch football.


This is a stupid analogy. Gibbs didn't accidentally fall on Gray. Gibbs tackled and that tackle drove Gray's head (and with the weight of Gibbs behind it) into the turf and knocked him out.

And the game is not soft.

But the brain can be damaged, tragically so, irreversibly so, and it is damaged with constant collisions and these men will allow that to occur because we teach them that getting your head driven into the turf is tough when it isn't. Toughness is about overcoming fear and given these footballers overcome their fear numerous times we need to try and protect their future selves, especially their fragile brains,

so

either rule out contact altogether

or headgear for all and diminish contact a lot more

or

when that contact then leads to a head high collision the person initiating the contact needs to be penalized to try and eradicate (as much as possible in this sport) such occurrences.

seriously get over it - or better yet, go run your head into a brick wall a few times to feel tough.

Same type of analogy. Both are fundamentals of a sport. Although they have to redefine the perfect tackle now. I think a clear rule has to be brought out, because l saw at least 2 other tackles exactly the same in the game. The precedent has been set. 3 wks for a hard tackle if a player is taken off the ground and not even concussed. Every perfect tackle has to be reportable now, with or without injury. I think the afl wish we challenged, as they would of wanted gibbs to get off. Just their stupid scoring system made it reportable. Now every perfect tackle will be suspending players. Not something the afl want to deal with every monday.

Cant wait to see buddy franklin do the exact same thing and get off scott free though.

As for being soft, you are right. This sport was grown from toughness and being a brutal sport. It is what made our game special and unique. People have turned from boxing to ufc. Rugby union to rugby league. When you start losing your identity, which the afl is with the way it is played now, supporters will goto watch other sports.

The afl should appeal their own decision or deal with the headache of superstars being ruled out for a fundamental called a perfect tackle.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Just reading some of the comments about Gibbs' suspension on the Carlton instagram feed.

If I ever feel bad that the level of disucssion and average TC poster is not up to scratch a quick visit to social media soon gives me a bit of perspective.

Oh boy wowee! :banghead: :hitcomputer: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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camelboy wrote:
Just reading some of the comments about Gibbs' suspension on the Carlton instagram feed.

If I ever feel bad that the level of disucssion and average TC poster is not up to scratch a quick visit to social media soon gives me a bit of perspective.

Oh boy wowee! :banghead: :hitcomputer: :lol:


I'm keen to represent the site should forum trade week eventuate. Steak knives and sweeteners for everyone!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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we need an acadamy.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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King Kenny wrote:
Bell does the same tackle all the time. He should be suspended too.


What about when Levi flies for one of those pack busting grabs; his knee hits an opponent in the head and knocks him out.
If the head is sacrosanct shouldn't he be suspended?

Could someone please answer this?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:33 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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Mark J wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
Bell does the same tackle all the time. He should be suspended too.


What about when Levi flies for one of those pack busting grabs; his knee hits an opponent in the head and knocks him out.
If the head is sacrosanct shouldn't he be suspended?

Could someone please answer this?



someone called into to Kb today and asked this, the marking contest is pure accident and unavoidable where the gibbs tackle was deemed as 2 actions with the sling


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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can we try a bit of sense.

Gibbs tackled him, then he made sure of it (Sling, swing who cares, Gray was a goner with that second action of Gibbs. I'm happy that given he knocked Gray out he's gone for 2 weeks. We know there are repercussions to brain hits, so we have to try and add some protection. Is it perfect no, but stop trying to argue it should be because then you'd get no contact at all. None us want that so all we can do is try and lessen the number of incidents. Is there a a grey area (sorry couldn't help myself)? Of course there is...All Law should have grey areas otherwise there is no justice, only punishment. I am happy though for the AFL to try and protect the head as much as possible. If it was Gibbs (or better yet Cripps) who was knocked out in such a tackle I am sure we'd see it differently.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Springsteen wrote:
Mark J wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
Bell does the same tackle all the time. He should be suspended too.


What about when Levi flies for one of those pack busting grabs; his knee hits an opponent in the head and knocks him out.
If the head is sacrosanct shouldn't he be suspended?

Could someone please answer this?



someone called into to Kb today and asked this, the marking contest is pure accident and unavoidable where the gibbs tackle was deemed as 2 actions with the sling


But doesn't Levi have the same duty of care as Gibbs?
If he chooses to fly for a mark with his knee up, he'd be aware of the potential outcome, and contact is not unavoidable in that situation.
Gibbs didn't intend to knock Gray out; it was an accidental outcome off the tackle.... Was it not?
I still don't see the difference. Either the head is sacrosanct or it's not.
Gibbs had him around the waist!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:50 pm 
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Ken Hands

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Mark J wrote:
Springsteen wrote:
Mark J wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
Bell does the same tackle all the time. He should be suspended too.


What about when Levi flies for one of those pack busting grabs; his knee hits an opponent in the head and knocks him out.
If the head is sacrosanct shouldn't he be suspended?

Could someone please answer this?



someone called into to Kb today and asked this, the marking contest is pure accident and unavoidable where the gibbs tackle was deemed as 2 actions with the sling


But doesn't Levi have the same duty of care as Gibbs?
If he chooses to fly for a mark with his knee up, he'd be aware of the potential outcome, and contact is not unavoidable in that situation.
Gibbs didn't intend to knock Gray out; it was an accidental outcome off the tackle.... Was it not?
I still don't see the difference. Either the head is sacrosanct or it's not.
Gibbs had him around the waist!


Gibbs had his arms pinned!!!

I've got no problem with the onus being put on the tackler to make an assessment whether they've got their opponents arms pinned and adjusting their tackle accordingly. Gibbs could have collapsed his knees and brought Gray to the ground. He didn't and went the sling instead. The former would have been the perfect tackle in that situation. The latter did nothing but run the risk of injuring his opponent who couldn't protect himself in the one area everyone knows we don't want injuries.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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dannyboy wrote:
can we try a bit of sense.

Gibbs tackled him, then he made sure of it (Sling, swing who cares, Gray was a goner with that second action of Gibbs. I'm happy that given he knocked Gray out he's gone for 2 weeks. We know there are repercussions to brain hits, so we have to try and add some protection. Is it perfect no, but stop trying to argue it should be because then you'd get no contact at all. None us want that so all we can do is try and lessen the number of incidents. Is there a a grey area (sorry couldn't help myself)? Of course there is...All Law should have grey areas otherwise there is no justice, only punishment. I am happy though for the AFL to try and protect the head as much as possible. If it was Gibbs (or better yet Cripps) who was knocked out in such a tackle I am sure we'd see it differently.


I'm all for protecting the head, but it wasn't a king hit or elbow or coat hanger or punch.
It's a contact sport and you can't legislate for every scenario and if you try to you need to be consistent. Not just base it purely on the outcome.
Make every sling tackle illegal regardless of the result if you are going to be fair

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