STOP DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE ! (sakc ratten MKII)

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

Effes wrote:

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

Ratten needs help...

Doc do you think the club will actually do anything about the coaching/assistant coaching situation?

Do they recognise that there is a problem/issue there?

The powers that be recognise that the message isn't getting through. Personally I think Ratts is very good coach - but not all the players are responding to their roles and that of life as an AFL footballer. There's half a dozen who can't be coached (in one ear and out the other) or are getting information overload. That's probably harsh - but they're struggling.

There's been some confronting moments, primarily addressed through Leading Teams that hasn't gone over well with some of the coaches and some of the players. Leadership is a big problem. It doesn't come from too many areas and is limited across the board. There's been a push of late to get a senior coach in to help Ratten...so assistants are on edge. A real lack of 25-30 year old age bracket who have leadership qualities. Really need a few more to grow up. Expect a big play for a senior player with oodles of leadership qualities in the off-season. Wheels already in motion. As much as Ratts needs help - Judd needs more help.

So. do you mean Pavlich Doc?

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17219

camel · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:02 pm

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

Effes wrote:

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

Ratten needs help...

Doc do you think the club will actually do anything about the coaching/assistant coaching situation?

Do they recognise that there is a problem/issue there?

The powers that be recognise that the message isn't getting through. Personally I think Ratts is very good coach - but not all the players are responding to their roles and that of life as an AFL footballer. There's half a dozen who can't be coached (in one ear and out the other) or are getting information overload. That's probably harsh - but they're struggling.

There's been some confronting moments, primarily addressed through Leading Teams that hasn't gone over well with some of the coaches and some of the players. Leadership is a big problem. It doesn't come from too many areas and is limited across the board. There's been a push of late to get a senior coach in to help Ratten...so assistants are on edge. A real lack of 25-30 year old age bracket who have leadership qualities. Really need a few more to grow up. Expect a big play for a senior player with oodles of leadership qualities in the off-season. Wheels already in motion. As much as Ratts needs help - Judd needs more help.

That's some positive feedback at least. It's pretty obvious we are lacking leadership, though. The scary part is leadership seems to be lacking in virtually all departments - playing, coaching and administration.

Let's hope the "wheels in motion" make some genuine steps to remedy the situation.

As noted by others, the players have shown they have the talent. Sure we might have a few holes that need plugging, but it's not as bad as our recent performances would indicate. And this is the problem. We have been playing well below our best for too many weeks now.

It's not good enough.

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

Is it possible that Leading Teams confrontational style is, in retrospect, not a great idea with the majority of team,and coaching staff being classified as introverts?

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2864

The coaching department's job is to get the best out of the players they have. Clearly, this is not happening at the moment.

Last night, not only did Ross Lyon not put any credence in the last quarter, he made the coaching department take responsibility for the performance of the players.

Quote:

I think you can exclude the last quarter to be fair. We’re certainly not hanging our hat on that, as much as we were okay. To half time, it was pathetic, really. Three goals off 22 entries and they’d had 22 entries and kicked 9.5,” Lyon said.

Let’s make this clear I am not separating myself from the loss at all, or my assistants. We’re in it up to our necks with the players because we’re responsible for them being able to deliver on game day.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

Do you reckon Ratten in his press conference will take responsibility? Or will he trot out the same old statistics, and say how the last quarter was promising, that maybe it's a sign we've turned the corner?

It is quite clear that Ratten is out of his depth. There is no gameplan in place every week. The players are cluless as to how they need to play. There is no experience on the coaching panel, other than Riley, and no one who has coached at a successful club. The whole scenario is a joke, which started with the way Ratten was appointed.

Ratten needs to go, and so does the bloke who appointed him, the bloke who extended his contract twice before it was necessary, and who has been a part of every Board problem since John Elliott. Fish and heads and all that.

The Normal One · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 20076

bluegirl72 wrote:

Is it possible that Leading Teams confrontational style is, in retrospect, not a great idea with the majority of team,and coaching staff being classified as introverts?

Of course it is. It's a fad, never existed until some tool thought he could make some money out of it and when one club has some success crediting it, it becomes fashionable.

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

keogh wrote:

He has lost the players. That was obvious to me 3 weeks ago. It must be obvious to everyone now.

I could go on and on with the same shit.

Thing is I reckon we have the talent

But most of the players have gone backwards. Thats what happens when you know the situation is hopeless.

If the club says it was just one of those days they are on Mars.

W need to start to look for a new coach and the best coach outhere now for todays AFL footy.

Clearly Ratten isnt the answer

AND IT MUST START NOW

Its not all Ratten's fault. SOme of the players have no guts and are as soft as marshmellow.

They are pathetic but ultimately the buck stops with the coach.

ITS IS THAT SIMPLE GENTS AND LADIES

Yep!!!

GWS · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:11 pm

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

yes

And how many years of quality football does he have left?

If we recruit Pavlich and it costs us anything other than cash we're screwed.

verbs · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:12 pm

Was reading an article referencing, I think Luke Darcy, that the Bulldogs could've won a premiership if Wallace had have been open to "discussions" from the players as proposed by Leading Teams.

There seems to be just as much going against Leading Teams, if not more than what's going for it. It sounds like it either makes or breaks a team, and at this stage has a better record of breaking teams. Probably inflates the players opinions of themselves I reckon.

cimm1979 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:13 pm

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

yes

Pav's not the answer.

He may look like a leader, but he's not.

No point changing the playing list without changing the coach.

Good coaches stamp their style early in their reign. Ratts hasn't even got a stamp, he's a boob.

chubbyruss · **Joined:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am **Posts:** 8631

GWS wrote:

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

yes

And how many years of quality football does he have left?

If we recruit Pavlich and it costs us anything other than cash we're screwed.

Don't thing we have much cash at all

Rod Waddell · **Joined:** Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am **Posts:** 1650

Agreed re Pav.

1. He won't come over
2. At 28 or 29 why bother

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

GWS wrote:

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

yes

And how many years of quality football does he have left?

If we recruit Pavlich and it costs us anything other than cash we're screwed.

Pavlich won't come if Ratten is still the coach.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6413

Dr.SHERRIN wrote:

yes

But that is typical Carlton. The Carton we used to know and love.

Those days are gone

We have a coach who isnt up to it.

What is Bradleys role
Lappins role

They are the ones you can replace

it seems we are stuck inside a bubble that was Carlton but this is 2010

To answer a poster before I really believe we have the talent but it needs to be harnessed
It needs the RIGHT people to lead the PLAYERS on the RIGHT path

Leading teams is great

It the players dont like some home truths then tell them to @#$%&! off

Who was the one player who didnt like it at Pie land
Chris Tarrant and where he is now

Its about bulding a culture that accepts nothing less than 100%

Thats why Thomas and even Didak have improved
Its why Medhurst and Fraser cant get a game

We accept average efforts
Look no further than the celebrations after beating the bottom team after being 4 goals down.

It sickened me

Go out and get the best coach tactically that will toughen up these softcocks once and for all.

We are in abyss
Only chane will drag us out of it

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

Siegfried wrote:

The coaching department's job is to get the best out of the players they have. Clearly, this is not happening at the moment.

Last night, not only did Ross Lyon not put any credence in the last quarter, he made the coaching department take responsibility for the performance of the players.

Quote:

I think you can exclude the last quarter to be fair. We’re certainly not hanging our hat on that, as much as we were okay. To half time, it was pathetic, really. Three goals off 22 entries and they’d had 22 entries and kicked 9.5,” Lyon said.

Let’s make this clear I am not separating myself from the loss at all, or my assistants. We’re in it up to our necks with the players because we’re responsible for them being able to deliver on game day.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

Do you reckon Ratten in his press conference will take responsibility? Or will he trot out the same old statistics, and say how the last quarter was promising, that maybe it's a sign we've turned the corner?

It is quite clear that Ratten is out of his depth. There is no gameplan in place every week. The players are cluless as to how they need to play. There is no experience on the coaching panel, other than Riley, and no one who has coached at a successful club. The whole scenario is a joke, which started with the way Ratten was appointed.

Ratten needs to go, and so does the bloke who appointed him, the bloke who extended his contract twice before it was necessary, and who has been a part of every Board problem since John Elliott. Fish and heads and all that.

I'll tell you what...if he doesn't accept responsibility for today's performance, i am going to need anger managent classes.
i think the time has come for some bold action.
Very uneasy about next week too..and can't see how improvement will come in a week.
We only looked good in Q4 because Pies took foot off gas.

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

Questions need to be asked of:

Ratten
Riley
Montgomery
Lappin
Harvey
Bradley
Harris
Teague
Icke

How were these guys recruited?

For what roles?

What interview processes did they go through?

What is there history of success?

Changes need to be made and then the RIGHT people need to be brought in through the right processes!

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17219

bluegirl72 wrote:

Is it possible that Leading Teams confrontational style is, in retrospect, not a great idea with the majority of team,and coaching staff being classified as introverts?

I'm a fan of Ray McLean...I'm not convinced all the boys have embraced it. But we had no choice...we need these boys to take ownership, pick up the slack, believe in each other, themselves and create a Carlton culture defined by success. It may yet sink in...one can only hope.

Have a look at http://www.leadingteams.net.au/ to get a better idea of what goes on.

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28227

So Pavlich is gonna be the latest messiah? :roll:

It's quite clear the players aren't at all confident in what they're doing or supposed to be doing. There's a total breakdown in method and there's no answers coming to turn things around.

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2864

verbs wrote:

Was reading an article referencing, I think Luke Darcy, that the Bulldogs could've won a premiership if Wallace had have been open to "discussions" from the players as proposed by Leading Teams.

There seems to be just as much going against Leading Teams, if not more than what's going for it. It sounds like it either makes or breaks a team, and at this stage has a better record of breaking teams. Probably inflates the players opinions of themselves I reckon.

Darcy was actually saying that had the Bulldogs had a Leading Teams-type process in place at that time, that the Dogs would have won the Flag. He said that Wallace was not open to being challenged in the way that leadership programs challenge.

Not sure where you get the idea that there is lots going against Leading Teams. I haven't heard one thing against them, except for the post in this thread saying that some of the players and coaches at Carlton have had their noses put out. And it that is the case, then it simply shows the lack of leadership at the Club, and demonstrates why we are in the predicament we are in.

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

Forget the leading teams discussion. Absolutely irrelevant regarding our current position.

STOP DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE ! (sakc ratten MKII)

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