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Damiano
 Post subject: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:04 am
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Should not making the 8 be deemed a failure?
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AGRO
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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This is not like Parkin in 1980 where he inherited a premiership list (+ Hunter & Bosustow) this is like Parkin's second coming in 1990.

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99prelim
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
redback wrote:
99prelim wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
redback wrote:
Why should Malthouse be given 5 years?

He's a million dollar coach and Ratten wasn't.
He's a premiership coach and ratten wasn't.
His players respect him and play for him and Rattens don't.
He's a 30 year experience coach and Ratten wasn't.
He's a great tactician and Ratten wasn't.
He didn't take over a wooden spoon side to rebuild Ratten did.

Ross Lyon is a great coach too :roll: who hasn't won a premiership either and had the list at their prime then left them with a dilapidated list and nothing to show for it.
Is that the outcome of giving Malthouse 5 years or is it to rebuild the list that is very competitive and have improved by all accounts by Malthouse fans?
If we are so competitive and haven’t lost by more than 17 points to the best teams and Malthouse has only been in charge for 12 games and still learning the players then by the second half of the year we should be pushing top four and a premiership chance without the need of a rebuild.
That’s going by Malthouse's fans assumptions and the graphical improvement of the group over the past 7 rounds.


Couldn't agree more RB.
We know we have decent list to challange, we were told that by the club over the past 2 years.
We got a "premiership coach" because we felt we lacked in that area. No problems with that at all.
But don't make excuses now or come talk about taking us 3 years to build again!
Enough of the bullshit and StKilda mentality. :mad:


We were told by the coach...who has since been sacked cos he was shit. Obviously not shit enough to bamboozle some here that we were ready to challenge with a decent list

We lacked in what area?



The current coach also commented that the list is good enough to challenge. :donk:

Are we bamboolzed to believe him also or not? :roll:


Do you mean the new coach who had 5 minutes to assess the list and sell hope to the Carlton faithful...OR the old coach who had carte blanche for 5 years to construct, develop, nurture a list and make an informed judgement
Now who do you think REALLY and TRULY believed the words coming out of their own mouth?
How did the Hawthorn mids go against ours last week (with no Murph and Carazzo) with all the inside knowledge Alfred E Neuman transported over

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Juddy&theKruezers
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm
Posts: 4426
99prelim wrote:
redback wrote:
99prelim wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
redback wrote:
Why should Malthouse be given 5 years?

He's a million dollar coach and Ratten wasn't.
He's a premiership coach and ratten wasn't.
His players respect him and play for him and Rattens don't.
He's a 30 year experience coach and Ratten wasn't.
He's a great tactician and Ratten wasn't.
He didn't take over a wooden spoon side to rebuild Ratten did.

Ross Lyon is a great coach too :roll: who hasn't won a premiership either and had the list at their prime then left them with a dilapidated list and nothing to show for it.
Is that the outcome of giving Malthouse 5 years or is it to rebuild the list that is very competitive and have improved by all accounts by Malthouse fans?
If we are so competitive and haven’t lost by more than 17 points to the best teams and Malthouse has only been in charge for 12 games and still learning the players then by the second half of the year we should be pushing top four and a premiership chance without the need of a rebuild.
That’s going by Malthouse's fans assumptions and the graphical improvement of the group over the past 7 rounds.


Couldn't agree more RB.
We know we have decent list to challange, we were told that by the club over the past 2 years.
We got a "premiership coach" because we felt we lacked in that area. No problems with that at all.
But don't make excuses now or come talk about taking us 3 years to build again!
Enough of the bullshit and StKilda mentality. :mad:


We were told by the coach...who has since been sacked cos he was shit. Obviously not shit enough to bamboozle some here that we were ready to challenge with a decent list

We lacked in what area?



The current coach also commented that the list is good enough to challenge. :donk:

Are we bamboolzed to believe him also or not? :roll:


Do you mean the new coach who had 5 minutes to assess the list and sell hope to the Carlton faithful...OR the old coach who had carte blanche for 5 years to construct, develop, nurture a list and make an informed judgement
Now who do you think REALLY and TRULY believed the words coming out of their own mouth?
How did the Hawthorn mids go against ours last week (with no Murph and Carazzo) with all the inside knowledge Alfred E Neuman transported over

:lol:

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Bigredisback
 Post subject: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm
Posts: 942
In mick we trust
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redback
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2646
99prelim wrote:
redback wrote:
99prelim wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
redback wrote:
Why should Malthouse be given 5 years?

He's a million dollar coach and Ratten wasn't.
He's a premiership coach and ratten wasn't.
His players respect him and play for him and Rattens don't.
He's a 30 year experience coach and Ratten wasn't.
He's a great tactician and Ratten wasn't.
He didn't take over a wooden spoon side to rebuild Ratten did.

Ross Lyon is a great coach too :roll: who hasn't won a premiership either and had the list at their prime then left them with a dilapidated list and nothing to show for it.
Is that the outcome of giving Malthouse 5 years or is it to rebuild the list that is very competitive and have improved by all accounts by Malthouse fans?
If we are so competitive and haven’t lost by more than 17 points to the best teams and Malthouse has only been in charge for 12 games and still learning the players then by the second half of the year we should be pushing top four and a premiership chance without the need of a rebuild.
That’s going by Malthouse's fans assumptions and the graphical improvement of the group over the past 7 rounds.


Couldn't agree more RB.
We know we have decent list to challange, we were told that by the club over the past 2 years.
We got a "premiership coach" because we felt we lacked in that area. No problems with that at all.
But don't make excuses now or come talk about taking us 3 years to build again!
Enough of the bullshit and StKilda mentality. :mad:


We were told by the coach...who has since been sacked cos he was shit. Obviously not shit enough to bamboozle some here that we were ready to challenge with a decent list

We lacked in what area?



The current coach also commented that the list is good enough to challenge. :donk:

Are we bamboolzed to believe him also or not? :roll:


Do you mean the new coach who had 5 minutes to assess the list and sell hope to the Carlton faithful...OR the old coach who had carte blanche for 5 years to construct, develop, nurture a list and make an informed judgement
Now who do you think REALLY and TRULY believed the words coming out of their own mouth?
How did the Hawthorn mids go against ours last week (with no Murph and Carazzo) with all the inside knowledge Alfred E Neuman transported over


No I was referring to the multi successful experienced coach who has coached, and coached against all the players he inherited.
Such an astute and worldly coach should at least match what his talentless rookie hack predecessor has achieved with the same list.
I’m sorry did we win last week or did you see a different outcome than all of us.
If so would you mind ringing the AFL and ask them for our four points. :lol:
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redback
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2646
Damiano wrote:
Should not making the 8 be deemed a failure?



Definitely a failure but not according to those who have dropped their standards and are now happy to be middle of the road with no requirement for any success this year.
It’s like the premiership hang over.
No need to achieve anything this year, our goal has been accomplish.
We will have some time off then start again in five years time.

Don’t worry we can still hold a number of specific under achieves and departments responsible until that time.
Fall back on (constantly waffle on about)
Development (Ratten)
Recruiting (Ratten)
Lucas (Ratten)
Watson (Ratten)
Yarran (Ratten)
Kernahan (Ratten’s friend)
McKay (same as above)
Pokies (not sure how but I know Ratten is involved)

Well perhaps all is not lost.
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Blue Vain
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
99prelim wrote:
Do you mean the new coach who had 5 minutes to assess the list and sell hope to the Carlton faithful...OR the old coach who had carte blanche for 5 years to construct, develop, nurture a list and make an informed judgement


No.
He's talking about the new coach who spent 3 weeks travelling around flogging his newly released book instead of assessing the list of his new club.

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99prelim
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Blue Vain wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Do you mean the new coach who had 5 minutes to assess the list and sell hope to the Carlton faithful...OR the old coach who had carte blanche for 5 years to construct, develop, nurture a list and make an informed judgement


No.
He's talking about the new coach who spent 3 weeks travelling around flogging his newly released book instead of assessing the list of his new club.


True, but completely rrelevant to this argument.

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Synbad
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
i saw a clip of judd with hair at WC... WC blokes blocked for him at every opportunity...
we turned him into a draught horse under ratts.

hes hardly the player ratts had at his disposal....

just killed him... i reckon he ran kreuzer into the ground too.... and laidler..

there is nothing wrong with blaming ratts for the next couple of years.... cos he should be blamed.. and sticks should be blamed for giving his mate a job even though he was out of his depth .....

norwood .... lower divisions ....outter eastern suburbs... to afl is not a step ratts could manage.. and he destroyed so much attempting it..

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Bigredisback
 Post subject: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm
Posts: 942
Synbad wrote:
i saw a clip of judd with hair at WC... WC blokes blocked for him at every opportunity...
we turned him into a draught horse under ratts.

hes hardly the player ratts had at his disposal....

just killed him... i reckon he ran kreuzer into the ground too.... and laidler..

there is nothing wrong with blaming ratts for the next couple of years.... cos he should be blamed.. and sticks should be blamed for giving his mate a job even though he was out of his depth .....

norwood .... lower divisions ....outter eastern suburbs... to afl is not a step ratts could manage.. and he destroyed so much attempting it..


Ratts legacy will be with us for years
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Bigredisback
 Post subject: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm
Posts: 942
Blue Vain wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Do you mean the new coach who had 5 minutes to assess the list and sell hope to the Carlton faithful...OR the old coach who had carte blanche for 5 years to construct, develop, nurture a list and make an informed judgement


No.
He's talking about the new coach who spent 3 weeks travelling around flogging his newly released book instead of assessing the list of his new club.

May as well as ratten and the rest of the muppets in charged signed everyone up meaning he couldn't get rid of anyone
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99prelim
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Synbad wrote:
i saw a clip of judd with hair at WC... WC blokes blocked for him at every opportunity...
we turned him into a draught horse under ratts.

hes hardly the player ratts had at his disposal....

just killed him... i reckon he ran kreuzer into the ground too.... and laidler..

there is nothing wrong with blaming ratts for the next couple of years.... cos he should be blamed.. and sticks should be blamed for giving his mate a job even though he was out of his depth .....

norwood .... lower divisions ....outter eastern suburbs... to afl is not a step ratts could manage.. and he destroyed so much attempting it..


yes, as someone once called him, "our talentless, rookie predeccesor"

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club29
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:13 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Synbad wrote:
i saw a clip of judd with hair at WC... WC blokes blocked for him at every opportunity...
we turned him into a draught horse under ratts.

hes hardly the player ratts had at his disposal....

just killed him... i reckon he ran kreuzer into the ground too.... and laidler..

there is nothing wrong with blaming ratts for the next couple of years.... cos he should be blamed.. and sticks should be blamed for giving his mate a job even though he was out of his depth .....

norwood .... lower divisions ....outter eastern suburbs... to afl is not a step ratts could manage.. and he destroyed so much attempting it..


Like Buckley and Voss as Judd matured he got more solid. He lost a little bit of pace and mobility with his groin injury too. So like Voss and Buckley and even Kouta they all become inside clearance players. I don't think Judd was ran into the ground. He was out there playing football best he could and he loved it. Same with Kruezer. He loves it. Prefers being the work horse. Copped a knee injury and then had to deal with all the injuries that follow. The only way I can see him being killed was throwing him in the ruck when he first came back. I thought he could have used a couple of months away from centre bounces at least.

With Laidler there is only one way to know if your kneecap is going to keep coming out and that is play and find out. Once it is certain then go the op. But as we are seeing the op isn't always the best move. I trust the medics on that one.
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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25157
Location: Bondi Beach
BigBlueWave wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
There has been improvement cause we have more players to choose ... and a more mature and generally better list this year. The quality of coaching has been appalling ... The Essendon* and StKilda matches were classic examples of bad coaching and lost opportunity ... not to mention team selection.

If you really want to compare you need to look at season 2011 ... and its pretty obvious we have gone backwards.

We live in Hope ... come on Carlton ... come on MM ... lift your game.



You have to accept that the bloke who carried the team in that year, and clear favourite to win the Brownlow, Christopher Judd, is getting older and will not be the same player he was in 2011...ever.

...and I agree.......everybody lift your game.

I want to see more progress and improvement in the next 10 weeks and failure to reach the 8 is a fail in my books!



So it had nothing to do with the coaches or the players that year ... It was purely Chris Judd who was the difference ... :banghead:

Sorry ... that just doesn't make sense.

Also ... nothing I have seen this year convinces me that MM is a great Tactician ... In Fact .. quite the opposite.
Failure to make tactical moves at critical times ... the marvelous "bomb into the forward line no matter what!" tactic ... etc etc ... :thanks:



Yes Chris Judd made a difference: a huge difference.

Ask anyone who hasnt got an axe to grind.

One of the most influential players of the last decade.
Don't you recall him being called a "match winner".

Now chillax man...there's no need for the head bashing icon.
I didnt say anything wrong, so dont accuse me of it.
I dont want to be part of this bashathon thats going on in this thread.

Really emotional stuff. :wink:

MM's allright. Imagine if we got Neeld, or Ratts, or Watson, or Harvey.
Glass is half full.

I'm not the enemy....leave me alone.

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Synbad
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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i suppose judd can now rei nvent himself and become an enforcer or something....ground to dust by ratten.

five years he had his hands on judd.... kiled him... aged 28 judd was lame..... :yikes: .... twenty eight... sad to watch actually...

hands up those who didnt fear that was going to happen!!!! :thumbsup:

ratten... a man who gave and gave to this club's mediocrity... again i dont blame only ratten .. sticks had a part in it too...

not many of you malthouse haters actually scrutinise the role sticks has played in all this....

u blame malthouse as if malthouse signed himself.. recruited the list.. and managed the team.... :lol:

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club29
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:44 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Synbad wrote:
i suppose judd can now rei nvent himself and become an enforcer or something....ground to dust by ratten.

five years he had his hands on judd.... kiled him... aged 28 judd was lame..... :yikes: .... twenty eight... sad to watch actually...

hands up those who didnt fear that was going to happen!!!! :thumbsup:

:


If I believed that nonsense I would go into a hyper fit too everytime someone mentioned Ratts name too. Throw in the lollies and the closed sessions and I reckon I would throwing in the nervous :lol: :lol: :lol: all over the place.
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redback
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2646
Handball direction to waffle.

Why can't an experienced coach achieve finals if not more this year than his talentless rookie hack predecessor has achieved with the same list, and its even a healthier one.
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club29
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:19 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Synbad wrote:

five years he had his hands on judd.... kiled him... aged 28 judd was lame..... :yikes: .... twenty eight... sad to watch actually...



Wasn't he lame when we got him ? Selective memory.
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TheBluesMuse
 Post subject: Re: Trust Malthouse
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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It's about reprogramming them...

I am loving the differences I am seeing under Malthouse and yet I am also frustrated at our inability to just go that little bit extra, moreso I see our leadership as a massive massive problem and that's something Malthouse has inherited and it will need to be addressed aggressively.

For years I have been perplexed at our inability to prepare a young guy for AFL level..i posted about it years ago how every bloody time we would introduce a new kid or rookie to the AFL they would actually run around like headless chooks and make inexplicable errors. We would make them look like a fool and their confidence would suffer because of it and I believe actually stunt their progress. But yet ,at the other clubs, good ones particularly you would see an unknown be given his first game and he actually knew what he was doing and had a clear understanding if his role, he may not dominate but he would at least know what was expected and make the right decision. Rightly or wrongly I blamed that entirely on the coach.

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