I'm open minded on all of them. It purely depends on what we can get.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Menzel doesn't get enough of it for me. Averages around 8 disposals per game, he can't push up to the midfield because he is questionable in an aerobic sense.

Small forwards these days have to be defensive as well as having the ability to convert chances from limited opportunity.

You'd think that of all the skills and qualities AFL players need to have these days aerobic capacity would be the easiest to develop, perhaps not to an elite level but to an acceptable level at least. if porky Jobe Watson (all peptides aside) can get there surely most elite kids coming through the feeder comps should also be able. I'm no sports scientist but surely it is easier to get somebody fit than it is to improve their decision making, agility etc

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Right. Menzel and Henderson to Geelong, to put them right back into flag contention. Right after that douchebag from Melbourne wound up in their forward line.

FMD.

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

Has a career average of 9; managed a career-high 17 against Richmond then only 7 against West Coast, where he didn't see the game out.

You're calling this very early.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Don't want Hendo to go but the writing may be on the wall with him. He may want to get out of Carlton. I think he has suffered because they haven't settled him into the one position.

All comes back to the inability to draft a decent KPF since Josh Kennedy.

..i'd consider trading Menz for the right price, but for entirely different reasons.. ....I just see some bad habits creeping into his game.. ..the chain of poor on field culture is taking root in menz to make him another link in the chain of bad habits..

....but your reasoning fails to take into account the blown out knees of his teenage years.. ..don't under estimate the setback this has had on him.. ..crisps is in a similar position because he has his broken legs in the recent past..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

His knees won't get better with the Lars treatment. Agree about the bad habits but for me he is one of the most overrated players on our list.

That all depends on the state of the ligaments prior to and through the injury. If he had a shit ligament, LARS might actually be an improvement.

There's a decent chance it will need to be replaced at some point, but the technology and the surgical technique is improving all the time. Augmentation is an existing and inevitable component of medical development and research.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I'm not sure the best way to rebuild is by trading the established 21yr olds out of the club. Outside of a very impressive offer I wouldn't be trading Menz. He's the bird in the hand at this stage. A bird we should be holding on to.

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@cecil_anderson

He's not established. That is the problem.

i think menzel has showed enough in only 28 games to demonstrate he can play a big part in our future.

I agree re bad habits. The problem is, with no accountability from our leadership...no punishment etc they are allowed to creep into his game.

Our 'leaders' are the ones shirking contests (Gibbs, Murphy) or playing for frees (Carrazzo, Murphy) or going in one handed (Yarran).

He is learning it off them, neither is he having a prerequisite of toughness forced on him.

The lack of true leaders is a real issue. This is why I'm not against trading one or two of our leaders.

Imagine if Menzel was drafted to Sydney or Port...who have such an emphasis on fitness and toughness within the group...they challenge each other. He would already be a freak. But at the blues, he is not challenged.

Perfect example is Colin Sylvia at Freo....a supposed leader at melbourne for years, can't even get a look in at Freo as he isn't fitting in with their teams ethos

When he's fit, he plays. That's established IMO.

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@cecil_anderson

I too am of the unpopular mind to trade Menzel if the right deal comes up.

Doesn't get much of it, not overly quick, poor defensively, still lacks a tank, long-term injury risk, yet still somehow has massive currency.

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"The Wigg's big in 08!" - Chris Judd

Jack Gunston only has quickness on him; that's the template for him if all we get from him is a permanent forward role.

Gunston has only had 9 or 10 games of 20+ possessions, and had a poorer record than Menzel at the same point in his career.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Gunston also has accuracy when kicking for goal!

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

You're basically agreeing with me here:

Menzel's record: 36.20 @ 64.3%
Gunston's record at the same point: 22.13 @ 62.9%

Gunston's record: 169.79 @ 68.1%

That said we don't have a full list of things like goal assists, I50 targets, I50 marks, scoring involvements, etc. I think Menzel is better with the ball in hand than Gunston, and less of a one-trick pony as a player.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Wouldn't trade Menzel unless we get an offer to good to refuse but I don't know why he's being compared to Gunston as he is a marking stay and home forward and Menzel is a half forward who you would hope can play midfield in a few years.

I think it's more a reflection on our list than Menzel. Talented but based purely on performance he wouldn't be an established player in many top clubs.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015