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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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The age has declared 2014 draft pool "exceptional"


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Trigger wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Trigger wrote:
Caro reckons buffont or whatever his name is ,will be at cfc.I think i heard it correctly.


"Buttifant" Hope so.

Thats it :grin:

Yes we got him sloppy seconds.
Another magpie..... Probably past his used by date.....

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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ThePsychologist wrote:
ryan2000 wrote:
Can't believe i'm going to say this but.........I'm starting to warm to the idea of going after Dale Thomas!



Sorry Ryan, but a short term solution to a long term problem.

First thing is to sort out Football Department and Recruiting. Both are responsible for this mess.

Hughes & Rogers need to go. Neither is rated within the industry and wouldn't get a job anywhere else. WTF happpened to "The Best" attitude we were working on?

Luke Williams need to take over and show why we chased him.

Secondly, appoint a List Manager. I believe we are on the right track with regards to development now but we are coming off an extremely low base. The appointments of guys like a Tudor, Neeld, Voss or Ling will help.

Then clean out the crap. Go read Talking Players (I am as bad as anyone) and the comments and discussion about a player did this and that etc so keep them. FFS if they can't contribute consistently to a level that is required say goodbye.

Why does Rowe get an extension before years end?

We need to make "Tough Decisions" and turnover our list. Unfortunately we have not done that for years and are now paying the price.

How players like Davies, Joseph, Collins, Hampson, Warnock, Duigan, Buckley, Dale keep getting contracts?

Why do we recruit Cachia, Curnow, Carter, Twomey, Johnson, Heyne etc? Handy, maybe but how do they improve our list???

Our best players now were essentially flukes. Guys like Henderson, McLean, Simpson & Tuohy in some ways we were bloody lucky.

We are hanging our hats on guys like Graham & Menzel. Talented, yes but 2-3 years off making a significant impact at AFL Level. Where are these guys from 2-3 years ago that should be stepping up??

We need to go back to basics, have a major cleanout and be turning over 5-6 players a year from now on. Should of happened last year when it was a deep draft. This year isn't looking as good. Typical.

This is AFL football, the elite, it's a tough business, players either stand up or their out.


Yep, you are right, there are no excuses for a club (particularly a club finishing mid-ladder or lower) not to take at least four juniors in each draft. The other one or two selections can be made up of players in their first or second year of state footy. And yet year after year supporters have squibbed (just like the club) that more than the bare minimum of three draft picks was "too many". What have we been thinking and fearing? We have to give ourselves every opportunity to find the right mix of players. We are made up of a small bunch of over-idealised high draft picks put in cotton wool and the rest is made up of 'stock' who we've hoped could play pretty much straight away or fill a singular need (speed, kicking, etc).

There seems to be no plan and issues are addressed at the last minute and/or hap-haphazardly. I don't think there has been much effort to actually target players (in the draft or through trade) beyond overpaying for 'stars' and getting some ostensibly serviceable player we thought would 'slip' to us with a later pick. That last point brings up all kinds of disturbing thoughts about our mindset, why did other sides pass theses players by on cue? It has been that bad, folks.

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Last edited by Pafloyul on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I am really looking forward to this years draft.
I just hope we dont stupidly trade away our early picks during trade week/s.
Some fresh young talent is what we need right now.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Prison Island
1 Andrew Walker - Keep
2 Troy Menzel - Keep
3 Marc Murphy - Keep
4 Bryce Gibbs - Keep
5 Chris Judd - Keep
6 Kade Simpson - Keep
7 Dylan Buckley - Keep
8 Matthew Kreuzer - Keep
9 Kane Lucas - Shop Around
10 Matthew Watson - Keep
11 Robert Warnock - Shop Around
12 Mitch Robinson - Shop Around
13 Chris Yarran - Shop Around
14 Brock McLean - Keep
15 Jeremy Laidler - Shop Around
16 Andrew Collins - Rookie?
17 Sam Rowe - Keep
18 Tom Temay - Keep
19 Eddie Betts - Leave
20 Rhys O'Keeffe - Rookie?
21 Joshua Bootsma - Keep
22 Shaun Hampson - Shop Around
23 Lachlan Henderson - Keep
24 Pat McCarthy - Delist
25 Luke Mitchell - Delist
26 Andrew McInnes Keep
27 Dennis Armfield Keep
28 Tom Bell - Keep
29 Heath Scotland - Retire
30 Jarrad Waite - Keep
31 Marcus Davies - Delist
32 Nicholas Graham - Keep
33
34 Nick Duigan - Delist
35 Edward Curnow - Keep
36
37 Jaryd Cachia - Keep
38 Jeff Garlett - Shop Around
39 Frazer Dale - Delist
40 Michael Jamison - Keep
41 Levi Casboult - Keep
42 Zach Tuohy - Keep
43 Simon White - Shop Around
44 Andrew Carrazzo - Keep
45 Aaron Joseph - Delist
46 David Ellard - Delist

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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lock in Hendo KPF and Bootsma KPD going forward, coz Mick has I reckon


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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grrofunger wrote:
1 Andrew Walker - Keep
2 Troy Menzel - Keep
3 Marc Murphy - Keep
4 Bryce Gibbs - Keep
5 Chris Judd - Keep
6 Kade Simpson - Keep
7 Dylan Buckley - Keep
8 Matthew Kreuzer - Keep
9 Kane Lucas - Shop Around
10 Matthew Watson - Keep
11 Robert Warnock - Shop Around
12 Mitch Robinson - Shop Around
13 Chris Yarran - Shop Around
14 Brock McLean - Keep
15 Jeremy Laidler - Shop Around
16 Andrew Collins - Rookie?
17 Sam Rowe - Keep
18 Tom Temay - Keep
19 Eddie Betts - Leave
20 Rhys O'Keeffe - Rookie?
21 Joshua Bootsma - Keep
22 Shaun Hampson - Shop Around
23 Lachlan Henderson - Keep
24 Pat McCarthy - Delist
25 Luke Mitchell - Delist
26 Andrew McInnes Keep
27 Dennis Armfield Keep
28 Tom Bell - Keep
29 Heath Scotland - Retire
30 Jarrad Waite - Keep
31 Marcus Davies - Delist
32 Nicholas Graham - Keep
33
34 Nick Duigan - Delist
35 Edward Curnow - Keep
36
37 Jaryd Cachia - Keep
38 Jeff Garlett - Shop Around
39 Frazer Dale - Delist
40 Michael Jamison - Keep
41 Levi Casboult - Keep
42 Zach Tuohy - Keep
43 Simon White - Shop Around
44 Andrew Carrazzo - Keep
45 Aaron Joseph - Delist
46 David Ellard - Delist

I would keep Ellard. We have to keep at least one of Betts, Yarran and Garlett. It would appear Betts is gone (arsehole) so we wont let the other 2 go.
Pretty much agree with the rest. Buckley will be the interesting one, i think the club will give him at least another year.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:11 pm 
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formerly cj69

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1 Andrew Walker - Keep
2 Troy Menzel - Keep
3 Marc Murphy - Keep
4 Bryce Gibbs - Keep
5 Chris Judd - Keep
6 Kade Simpson - Keep
7 Dylan Buckley - DELIST
8 Matthew Kreuzer - Keep
9 Kane Lucas - Shop Around
10 Matthew Watson - Keep
11 Robert Warnock - Shop Around
12 Mitch Robinson - Shop Around/DELIST
13 Chris Yarran - Shop Around
14 Brock McLean - Keep
15 Jeremy Laidler - Shop Around/KEEP
16 Andrew Collins - DELIST
17 Sam Rowe - Keep (ONLY BECAUSE OF NEW CONTRACT)
18 Tom Temay - Keep
19 Eddie Betts - GAWN FA
20 Rhys O'Keeffe - DELIST or has to UPGRADE??
21 Joshua Bootsma - Keep
22 Shaun Hampson - Shop Around/DELIST
23 Lachlan Henderson - Keep
24 Pat McCarthy - KEEP/ROOKIE?
25 Luke Mitchell - Delist
26 Andrew McInnes - Keep
27 Dennis Armfield SHOP AROUND
28 Tom Bell - SHOP AROUND
29 Heath Scotland - Retire
30 Jarrad Waite - Keep
31 Marcus Davies - Delist
32 Nicholas Graham - Keep
33
34 Nick Duigan - Delist
35 Edward Curnow - Keep
36
37 Jaryd Cachia - DELIST
38 Jeff Garlett - Shop Around
39 Frazer Dale - Delist
40 Michael Jamison - Keep
41 Levi Casboult - Keep
42 Zach Tuohy - Keep
43 Simon White - KEEP
44 Andrew Carrazzo - Keep
45 Aaron Joseph - Delist
46 David Ellard - KEEP

My only differences to you Gro are in capitals. Lots of changes if most happen! :wink:

I want to see 4-5 recruits/trades from other clubs that are still young enough for a ten year career plus 7-8 picks in the draft (with 3-4 inside the top 25) plus rookies.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I'm no fan of Bootsma, I wish I could be but I'm not. I also wish we'd at least see what we could get for Gibbs (I'd say he's worth more than Yarren and I'm scared the latter will put it all together and actually prove better than what we get for him). However, I really think we need to give up something good to go forward. I also wish they didn't give Rowe a contract extension, pencilled in Casboult as a 'depth' tall and as well as realise that Henderson needs another buddy (no implication intended). Collins and O'Keeffe have had their run. Otherwise, grro is pretty much right.

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Last edited by Pafloyul on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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No, don't trade players and or picks for other teams players. Get picks instead. A heap of them. package them up to get round 1 and 2 picks. Do this for two\three years. Develop them.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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i think it shows we are at least a few years away

we are cutting deep - but its not going to be enough for a rapid turnaround

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Pafloyul wrote:
I'm no fan of Bootsma, I wish I could be but I'm not. I also wish we'd at least see what we could get for Gibbs (I'd say he's worth more than Yarren and I'm scared the latter will put it all together and actually prove better than what we get for him). However, I really think we need to give up something good to go forward. I also wish they didn't give Rowe a contract extension, pencilled in Casboult as a 'depth' tall and as well as realise that Henderson needs another buddy (no implication intended). Otherwise, grro is pretty much right.


Package Gibbs and Yarran for pick 1.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Prison Island
ThePsychologist wrote:
1 Andrew Walker - Keep
2 Troy Menzel - Keep
3 Marc Murphy - Keep
4 Bryce Gibbs - Keep
5 Chris Judd - Keep
6 Kade Simpson - Keep
7 Dylan Buckley - DELIST yeah this could go either way
8 Matthew Kreuzer - Keep
9 Kane Lucas - Shop Around
10 Matthew Watson - Keep
11 Robert Warnock - Shop Around
12 Mitch Robinson - Shop Around/DELIST - cant see us delisting him, but should jump at a deal
13 Chris Yarran - Shop Around
14 Brock McLean - Keep
15 Jeremy Laidler - Shop Around/KEEP - cant see us keeping him, but may be last to go
16 Andrew Collins - DELIST - yeah probably
17 Sam Rowe - Keep (ONLY BECAUSE OF NEW CONTRACT) - agree
18 Tom Temay - Keep
19 Eddie Betts - GAWN FA - agree
20 Rhys O'Keeffe - DELIST or has to UPGRADE?? - yeah not sure - can see us keeping in some capacity
21 Joshua Bootsma - Keep
22 Shaun Hampson - Shop Around/DELIST - dont think we would delist
23 Lachlan Henderson - Keep
24 Pat McCarthy - KEEP/ROOKIE? - rookie only
25 Luke Mitchell - Delist
26 Andrew McInnes - Keep
27 Dennis Armfield SHOP AROUND - we just signed him - not sure we would get much either
28 Tom Bell - SHOP AROUND - yeah doubt much on offer though
29 Heath Scotland - Retire
30 Jarrad Waite - Keep
31 Marcus Davies - Delist
32 Nicholas Graham - Keep
33
34 Nick Duigan - Delist
35 Edward Curnow - Keep
36
37 Jaryd Cachia - DELIST - would we? dont think so
38 Jeff Garlett - Shop Around
39 Frazer Dale - Delist
40 Michael Jamison - Keep
41 Levi Casboult - Keep
42 Zach Tuohy - Keep
43 Simon White - KEEP - probably but could surprisingly have currency
44 Andrew Carrazzo - Keep
45 Aaron Joseph - Delist
46 David Ellard - KEEP - yeah flip a coin

My only differences to you Gro are in capitals. Lots of changes if most happen! :wink:

I want to see 4-5 recruits/trades from other clubs that are still young enough for a ten year career plus 7-8 picks in the draft (with 3-4 inside the top 25) plus rookies.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:34 pm 
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formerly cj69

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bluechucky wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
I'm no fan of Bootsma, I wish I could be but I'm not. I also wish we'd at least see what we could get for Gibbs (I'd say he's worth more than Yarren and I'm scared the latter will put it all together and actually prove better than what we get for him). However, I really think we need to give up something good to go forward. I also wish they didn't give Rowe a contract extension, pencilled in Casboult as a 'depth' tall and as well as realise that Henderson needs another buddy (no implication intended). Otherwise, grro is pretty much right.


Package Gibbs and Yarran for pick 1.


Would Yarran and our pick 8 or 9 do it?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:34 pm 
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formerly cj69

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grrofunger wrote:
i think it shows we are at least a few years away

we are cutting deep - but its not going to be enough for a rapid turnaround


Yep. I think that list gives as clear and indication as any.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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bluechucky wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
I'm no fan of Bootsma, I wish I could be but I'm not. I also wish we'd at least see what we could get for Gibbs (I'd say he's worth more than Yarren and I'm scared the latter will put it all together and actually prove better than what we get for him). However, I really think we need to give up something good to go forward. I also wish they didn't give Rowe a contract extension, pencilled in Casboult as a 'depth' tall and as well as realise that Henderson needs another buddy (no implication intended). Otherwise, grro is pretty much right.


Package Gibbs and Yarran for pick 1.


Plus keep our first pick and draft a midfielder. Get Thomas through free agency, have a go at Karnezis from Brisbane. That's the sort of thing I'd be doing.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Yarran + Warnock + pick 8 -> StKilda

Pick 3 + Pick 21 -> Carlton


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Rexy wrote:
Yarran + Warnock + pick 8 -> StKilda

Pick 3 + Pick 21 -> Carlton


STK have Hickey and McEvoy. They overpaid for Hickey.

Everyone saying the players aren't up to it.....etc.....who is to say that the next batch of draftees won't turn out the same given the environment they are drafted into.

A massive list overhaul isn't necessary. Obviously there is a lot of deadwood there - there is little dispute about who should be delisted.

Of course you don't rule anyone out being traded if you are offered a deal enormously in our favour but until then you don't go trading players with elite talent like Chris Yarran.

The club needs to develop an environment where draftees flourish - you may draft those with less talent but are hard workers, or there may be those who are extremely talented but bludgers. The club has to have an environment where all types can be developed. Synbad is right about Steven Motlop - drafted to Geelong who backed their development program to get the best out of Motlop.

We can keep talking about pissing off Gibbs Yarran etc but the key is what's the point if the replacements for them are drafted to an environment where they won't flourish.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
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Effes wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Yarran + Warnock + pick 8 -> StKilda

Pick 3 + Pick 21 -> Carlton


STK have Hickey and McEvoy. They overpaid for Hickey.

Everyone saying the players aren't up to it.....etc.....who is to say that the next batch of draftees won't turn out the same given the environment they are drafted into.

A massive list overhaul isn't necessary. Obviously there is a lot of deadwood there - there is little dispute about who should be delisted.

Of course you don't rule anyone out being traded if you are offered a deal enormously in our favour but until then you don't go trading players with elite talent like Chris Yarran.

The club needs to develop an environment where draftees flourish - you may draft those with less talent but are hard workers, or there may be those who are extremely talented but bludgers. The club has to have an environment where all types can be developed. Synbad is right about Steven Motlop - drafted to Geelong who backed their development program to get the best out of Motlop.

We can keep talking about pissing off Gibbs Yarran etc but the key is what's the point if the replacements for them are drafted to an environment where they won't flourish.


^
I feel like linking Moshe's 'fishbowl' post onto pretty much every footy dept. thread because we'll never really get things right until the club environment is sorted. I know banging on about the club culture and the boardroom is repetitive, but really until that's fixed we're just pissing into the wind.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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if not Warnock then someone else - we have options

never going to get a full output & commitment from Yarran - he's a cruiser - cash in now

Mick will dis-infect the place of the lack of full commitment - the culture will change for the better


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