Coach number 48262 to “lose” this playing group or a slight variant of it

Yes and Yes

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"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz

Like this, and the BV post that preceded it.
Also in terms of on field leaders inspiring the team... I think back to H's decision in game 1 to snap from 20m out dead in front: I felt the lack of confidence from Level 4.
How does Voss manage the softness of players like Gov and the timidity of Young?
He surely must hate it as much as us?


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Thanks. Just realised an error in my post, I meant we showed courage in the 2nd quarter, not the 2nd half.

The coaches can coach the strategies and if the players don't adhere to their role, there's accountability. (Boyd being dropped)
I have no problem with that.



This is a good talking point and it to an extent it addresses Braithy's question above.
I understand that there's pessimistic points of view and I'm an optimist usually, and the reality is probably somewhere in between.
But as much as losing and poor performances drag me down, I always see something good to come out of losses or poor performances. And this is no different.
Adversity tells you a lot about people and players. How they react, How they respond.

I'm more interested to see how the coaches respond to the current situation. Voss walked in to a playing group that has largely given him effort and commitment. He showed loyalty to the playing group and rightly so.
But we as supporters have seen and been scarred by the re-current let downs that occur.
Now Voss and coaches are seeing it first hand. Voss can give the players more opportunities to let him down or he can demand change.
There was mention on Thursday night that he addressed the players after the game and home truths were expressed. They didn't get their say. I can only hope he told them that the effort by some was piss poor and the leadership was unacceptable. Let's hope there are some honest conversations between the players this week as well. A 9 day turnaround gives them plenty of opportunity to dissect the performance and provide some home truths.

I'm hoping several players stand up in the VFL tonight and positions are up for grabs. We're desperate for class. We're desperate for desperation. The whole club is being challenged and it will be good to see who stands up and who finds it too hard. There's always the game within the game.

I don't buy the lost cause scenario. The Lions lost 5 of their first 7 last year and won the flag. Hawthorn lost their first 5 and were 3 points off a prelim. We have the talent to play good footy. We won 11 of 15 games last year. We won 9 in a row the year before. You don't do that with a poor list or poor coaches.
See how we respond as a club.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Well said BV. Voss must make a statement at selection this week. 4 weeks was enough for all to show better.
One or Two seniors must go. I dont want to see the usual scapegoats being dropped.

I still go back to that final last year
2 wins from 13 games

Yes. I've read that 47 times in the past few weeks. Funnily enough I rarely read how we won 11 of 15 last year or 9 in a row the year before.
Or how we got to a prelim winning 11 of 12 games including 2 finals.
Just adding a bit of context.

As I said some of us are optimists and some like to dwell in the negativity. And the reality is probably somewhere in between.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

One thing I have always maintained you give a coach 3 years unless he is completely incompetent
Optimistic people do tend to live in a fantasy world
Pessimistic people like myself tend to be more realistic
I’ll stream the magoos today bu there ain’t much there
Binns should have played more than 2 full games by now
So soft players continually get games
The thing is most supporters live in the bubble
Already it seems some clubs who missed the 8 last year have gone passed us
The other 7 teams in the eight last year won’t fall away considerably
It’s early days but as you know the game continues to evolve
Contested footy
It’s not a necessity that it was
That’s what Voss’ game plan is
I agree our leadership is terrible
Our recruitment is the main problem
We are in serious trouble unless we trade players out

Voss wants to be the players mates too much is my feel.

That's why they keep putting in putrid efforts, they feel too safe.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

I don't think that is true.
Going by what he has said over the past couple of weeks I think you'll find the following is more correct:
1. Big changes to zones cause instability and there is no way to measure improvement/failure in their systems.
2. He wants to give the defence time to gel as they have only been playing as a unit for 4 games.
3. Incremental changes are his preferred choice to measure what will and wont work with this playing group.

To be honest it is the right way to go about it from a statistical and probability stand point.
Coupled with the fact we have 0 depth, he doesn't really have a choice.
Like some have already said, he inherited a relatively poor list and has made lemonade out of lemons, but there are still too many lemons.
And Austin and co, have not really set the world alight with bringing in mature depth or quality when our window was open.
Like I've said for 3+ years, we needed to add mature class to our midfield but instead, last year we put 2 drafts hope on an 18 year old kid.
This is beyond poor list management, if we traded in another older player like a Jack Macrae to settle the midfield and help the kids we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

His job is to be a parental figure, mate, best friend, etc to get players to believe a story, play together as a group and get the best out of them.
But going by his presser on Thursday, he won't be having too many mates for awhile unless they start performing.
However the risk is and as we know, Carlton players go to water when the going gets tough because they know we will sack the coach instead of them.
Time to change the narrative.

On the highlighted part, I have been thinking of this lately.
Firstly Crippa epitomises Carlton of old and what we like as a player but at the same time and as we have seen he also holds us back at times.
If along the way we had of added another mature midfielder (premiership preferably) that would not only challenge him but was as good if not better I think he would be a more team orientated leader bringing players into the game instead of doing it all himself IMO.
And as much as I would have loved him to win a flag with us, I am honesty of the feeling that it would be more beneficial to both him and the club if we traded him to Freo.
He would have a fresh start and be better supported and we would have a group with less of an imposing leader to grow tougher and be more damaging as both a group and individually.
Still, I'd hate to see him go.
But I hate watching what we have been dishing up even more.

As I said, if Voss wants to keep his job and show the hierarchy he is a head coach, he will need to make a statement this week.
The players will either fall in line or fall on their sword. If the latter happens, at the very least, Voss has done what any half decent coach would do and the club admin would surely see what is transpiring.

We are 0-4 and don’t look like winning a game. We can’t even be confident of beating WCE. Deep down we all know we can capitulate in this game.

This is the 4th preseason Voss has had. The fact that we still don’t have distinct easily identifiable modes of play with the talent we have is a disgrace. Speaks volumes about our coaches and players. We legitimately looked like a bush league side at times on Thurs. Utterly embarrassing.

Our skill level and mental maturity, with a largely mature group, is deplorable and miles off the true contenders.

We all have our own views. There is the optimists and the pessimists. My view I consider realist.

There is no mitigating our current dire overall position. I hope it is true re G Wright and there’ll be multiple material changes. Coaches, players, LM and the entire football department.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong but I don’t see us turning this around. Zero faith that any of the key parties who can actually know how.

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We are on our way back...

Cripps has NEVER been a great leader

NEVER

Think of players like Brett Kirk or Nick Maxwell or Luke Hodge or Cotchin later on

They were great leaders (and only one undeserved Brownlow amongst them)

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Onfield leadership has been a problem for too long
What is Voss doing about it?
For starters, he told the football world last year in the Bris final that it was ok for Docherty to come back after 6 months and 3rd ACL STRAIGHT INTO a finals match with not 1 competitive game under his belt...MADNESS 101!!!!!!!
And aall because Docherty kept going to the coach from as early as May to tell him he was going to come back for the finals. SELF ABSORBED 101
Cripps has been a selfish player too long but Voss continues to give him all the toys in centre square cot...how about the runner dragging Cripps to the goal square if Daicos is on him. Fiddle around with the magnets...but nooooooooooo...Cripps is the king of the CBAs
Voss has had 4 seasons to control the narrative around on field leadership
And despite not knowing what is said behind closed doors, I still see a selfish captain and a selfish (previous) co-captain

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

I’d argue he’s had to be the leader that he is. His coach demands contest, that’s what he gives you. If Voss demands he lead by example, this is what you get.

Voss is one dimensional as a coach. His ego tells him that the game can still be won on the basis of his own (considerable) strengths and so the team play in his mould.
Docherty’s ‘heroics’ would have been what Voss would have expected of himself. In his day, he’d have been ok, the game has changed and he has not.

Champions (Voss was a champion player) are often selfish, it’s what sets them apart. He’s just handing down what he knows

Double post

Aargh! Don't remind me. I will never get over this, and I hate thinking about it because it really sours me on someone I should admire unreservedly.