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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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keogh wrote:
Thanks


Can I get your expectations on leadership now please keogh? I'm enjoying this thread and I need your opinion before I can sleep tonight. Many Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:41 pm 
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Robert Walls
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I get the impression that (rightly or wrongly) he is not happy with liddles and Lloyd's output and priorities.
Probably the review has said that they were meeting their kpis or priorities or whatever so they are safe, but he has put them on notice.

And if the review basically recommends moving on from the coach, then what can he do other than sack?

So far I feel that he and the board have done most things right this year.

The only questions for me are - did they pick the right people to do the review?
And did they time it correctly?
There seem to be a lot of experts on here who seem to think they know the answers to those questions.

Either way - I don't think you can really blame the outcomes of either of those decisions directly and solely on Luke.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Bluey44 wrote:
I get the impression that (rightly or wrongly) he is not happy with liddles and Lloyd's output and priorities.
Probably the review has said that they were meeting their kpis or priorities or whatever so they are safe, but he has put them on notice.

And if the review basically recommends moving on from the coach, then what can he do other than sack?

So far I feel that he and the board have done most things right this year.

The only questions for me are - did they pick the right people to do the review?
And did they time it correctly?
There seem to be a lot of experts on here who seem to think they know the answers to those questions.

Either way - I don't think you can really blame the outcomes of either of those decisions directly and solely on Luke.


Experts ? everyone is an expert here B44.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:05 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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TheBluesMuse wrote:
keogh wrote:
Thanks


Can I get your expectations on leadership now please keogh? I'm enjoying this thread and I need your opinion before I can sleep tonight. Many Thanks.


Ha ha
Look I agree with Cazzeman points but it’s all a bit clinical
You also have to sometimes go with gut feel on issues.

Leadership does involve delegating and trusting people
Which Cazzeman has pointed out
The jurys out for me on this point with Sayers
Being
Instinctive
Good listener
Good at perceiving people
Multi tasking
Looking at the big picture and trusting people to do the right thing

As I have said a lot before you put your head on the pillow
A good woman is better than a good man
There should be more woman at board level


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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The way I look at in simple terms it’s about working well with people
All those things I mentioned are hugely important
And overall women are better at that
You have to move with the times
Look we are a fractured club at the moment
It’s not good
Yes some tough decisions need to be made but if it’s too clinical and cold it will fall over
In my time in the workplace the best leaders were hard but human. Most were women

Carlton are in this situation because we think the the old way
Nothing in the last 2 days convinces me it’s changed
It feel the same to me
We so desperately need stability and people who can stay


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:22 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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keogh wrote:
The way I look at in simple terms it’s about working well with people
All those things I mentioned are hugely important
And overall women are better at that
You have to move with the times
Look we are a fractured club at the moment
It’s not good
Yes some tough decisions need to be made but if it’s too clinical and cold it will fall over
In my time in the workplace the best leaders were hard but human. Most were women

Carlton are in this situation because we think the the old way
Nothing in the last 2 days convinces me it’s changed
It feel the same to me
We so desperately need stability and people who can stay
Agreed

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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keogh wrote:
TheBluesMuse wrote:
keogh wrote:
Thanks


Can I get your expectations on leadership now please keogh? I'm enjoying this thread and I need your opinion before I can sleep tonight. Many Thanks.


Ha ha
Look I agree with Cazzeman points but it’s all a bit clinical
You also have to sometimes go with gut feel on issues.

Leadership does involve delegating and trusting people
Which Cazzeman has pointed out
The jurys out for me on this point with Sayers
Being
Instinctive
Good listener
Good at perceiving people
Multi tasking
Looking at the big picture and trusting people to do the right thing

As I have said a lot before you put your head on the pillow
A good woman is better than a good man
There should be more woman at board level


Keogh,

So based on a 25 min conference your gut feel is as above. Also your gut feel is that a women is better than a man.

Well I’ve got nuthin’ to add. Good luck with your gut issues.

Hard to argue with that inspirational thought process. Go at it.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:06 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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keogh wrote:
The way I look at in simple terms it’s about working well with people
All those things I mentioned are hugely important
And overall women are better at that
You have to move with the times
Look we are a fractured club at the moment
It’s not good
Yes some tough decisions need to be made but if it’s too clinical and cold it will fall over
In my time in the workplace the best leaders were hard but human. Most were women

Carlton are in this situation because we think the the old way
Nothing in the last 2 days convinces me it’s changed
It feel the same to me
We so desperately need stability and people who can stay

As a serious question and out of curiosity, Keogh how many boards have you been on (please separate committees from actual boards too)?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Barass is back to dropping hints re: CEO...
barass70 today wrote:
It’s cooking along nicely..

barass70 on 18/8 wrote:
Next CEO is cooking..

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Barass still insisting on BF just now that Liddle and Lloyd little chance of surviving …
Have to say, I only just saw Sawyers press conference.... and Liddle looked like he should have been wearing an Orange jump suit....

Serious question...
Other than that spat or whatever with SOS, what's been bad about Liddle?
Membership up, debt down, development going ahead....

The implications are too much messing in footy/players decisions as well???
(I understand why this would p155 people off... the role should deal with with this..his role is not recruitment - but was this happening? )

Lloyd and Liddle?? Butting heads??

I had two staff like that... I promised them that if they couldn't sort it out, I would ensure they would never have to work with each other again...they didn't take the hint... I wasn't explicit either....
(they didn't sort it out, and they both didn't have to work with each other any more)

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:12 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6326
It’s like this to me
I never been on a footy board
In the work place I have been on committees and sat and chaired meetings

So in 38 years I have seen heaps of leadership good and bad
Cazzeman’s points are relevant and valid but what he clearly doesn’t understand is that you have to be human.
You have to do with care and understanding
You also have to be tough and make hard decisions
A lot of Hardwicks and Goodwin’s positions being retained was about gut feel
Perception
You can do all the reviews you like
And have as much paper work to look over
But
There are some things that you can’t learn reading a manual
The really good leaders in my time had that extra human factor. There instinctive
And they are a rarity

And consequently the place normally ran like clockwork and everything flowed

Whether Cazzeman likes it or not women are better at that stuff


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:48 am 
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Horrie Clover
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@keogh. I think the gender thing is a bit of a misnomer.

The rest of your point is valid.

Greg Swann our old CEO is kicking goals with Brisbane yet presided over a pretty average body of work at Carlton.

We need to unlock why he failed where others did and why he's able to succeed now that he is free of our environment.

Old Carlton raised its head.

If we had simply played the slow game when ratten was coacing we would have saved ourselves 10 years of embarrassment and burnt careers, but at least we are now in a better place with our list.

That might become a problem soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:30 am 
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Craig Bradley
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What do decisions made in 2012 have to do with an EGM in 2021? Unless the challengers have a time machine and can change events from the past, I don’t want to hear about that.

If they have a comprehensive plan for the future which is better than what Sayers is offering, OK, tell us about it. Otherwise they should piss off and stop wasting everyone’s time.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:25 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Some much-needed common sense...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmlkSRtVls8

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:33 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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aboynamedsue wrote:
What do decisions made in 2012 have to do with an EGM in 2021? Unless the challengers have a time machine and can change events from the past, I don’t want to hear about that.

If they have a comprehensive plan for the future which is better than what Sayers is offering, OK, tell us about it. Otherwise they should piss off and stop wasting everyone’s time.


This is such a simple and yet 100% correct concept.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:14 am 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:07 am
Posts: 119
Brian Cook wasn't ready to leave Geelong but was moved on when Hocking became available.
Cook isn't ready to retire. After 3 marriages he needs to keep working as he has little super in the bank.
Would not surprise me to see him back as a CEO at another club. Have no information on whether that is Carlton though.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:38 am 
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Bruce Doull
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At least we might be able to revive "Can you smell what the Blues are cooking?" if that happens...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:43 am 
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Ken Hunter
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The 19 tram wrote:
Brian Cook wasn't ready to leave Geelong but was moved on when Hocking became available.
Cook isn't ready to retire. After 3 marriages he needs to keep working as he has little super in the bank.
Would not surprise me to see him back as a CEO at another club. Have no information on whether that is Carlton though.


He is a very marketable person, illustrated but the 3 marriages. :razz:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I wasn't going to bother responding but...... I thought you may have turned the corner a few weeks back, but you have just devolved into the same old Keogh. You just talk absolute rubbish based on pure thin air.

That post below is the biggest load of bullocks you have posted in a while and that is saying something.

keogh wrote:
It’s like this to me
I never been on a footy board
In the work place I have been on committees and sat and chaired meetings

So in 38 years I have seen heaps of leadership good and bad
Cazzeman’s points are relevant and valid but what he clearly doesn’t understand is that you have to be human.

Why don't I clearly understand that? I co-managed an office of 160 for 24 months. 70% men 30% women aged from 20-65. I think I have fair grasp on being human when required. At times you read the riot act, at times you mollycoddle and cajole. Every situation is different. Good leaders read their audience and adapt accordingly.

You have to do with care and understanding
You also have to be tough and make hard decisions

Isn't that what I said Leadership requires
Here is what I posted. You obviously didn't read one bit of it the first time.

He has to lead with complete fairness to all and make the hard decisions based on what is best for the Club
He must be clinical in his decision making and make those decisions purely based on facts.
He has to surround himself with the best he possibly can and let them get on with their jobs.
He must be unrelenting in demanding that everyone at the Club knows they are being employed for the betterment of the Club.
When issues arise he must ensure he or the relevant Manager deals with them quickly and professionally.
If he becomes aware of undermining or white anting anywhere within the Club, he needs to come down on it like a ton of bricks.
And my personal 2 rules. 1. No knee jerk reactions to issues. 2. The 1% doesn’t rule the 99%.



A lot of Hardwicks and Goodwin’s positions being retained was about gut feel
Perception

Says who? Reviews were done on both and decisions made based on the findings. Where has it been written anywhere that Gale said we have kept Hardwick on because that's what my gut says. More fictional rubbish


You can do all the reviews you like
And have as much paper work to look over
But
There are some things that you can’t learn reading a manual.

Yes but without the data and the personal interviews and the historical evidence, how does anyone formulate a clear and concise path to follow into the future. it is only once you have you detailed information from across the entire business, that you can go through it and work out the fact from the fiction. But alas, I forgot your own personal skill set......you can watch a 25 min media conference and judge a man running a $25 million dollar business on that. Spare me!


The really good leaders in my time had that extra human factor. There instinctive
And they are a rarity

And consequently the place normally ran like clockwork and everything flowed

Whether Cazzeman likes it or not women are better at that stuff

Whether I like it or not! Simply a stupid throwaway comment to make. Over 40+ years I have worked with men and women as leaders. Some good, some bad. Some Women were born leaders, other not. Likewise the men. For you to cover my mind set in relation to either gender in one sentence is again utter rubbish.



And when it is all said done, do you know what kind of man, husband, brother, father, leader, friend Sayers is?

If Sayers was to go with your 'Gut Feel' way of life, he probably doesn't need any form of process to find a new Coach. He just needs to line up 6 candidates against the wall ala 'The Usual Suspects' and each in turn says the words "I am the coach of Carlton'. And based on his gut feel he picks the winner. Also based on your 38 years of experience and beliefs, Sayers probably should have 3 of the 6 candidates as women.

Out the 81,000 members I wonder how many had even heard of Sayers or knew who he was prior to him taking over the Presidents role?
I certainly hadn't.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:39 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6326
Cazzesman wrote:
I wasn't going to bother responding but...... I thought you may have turned the corner a few weeks back, but you have just devolved into the same old Keogh. You just talk absolute rubbish based on pure thin air.

That post below is the biggest load of bullocks you have posted in a while and that is saying something.

keogh wrote:
It’s like this to me
I never been on a footy board
In the work place I have been on committees and sat and chaired meetings

So in 38 years I have seen heaps of leadership good and bad
Cazzeman’s points are relevant and valid but what he clearly doesn’t understand is that you have to be human.

Why don't I clearly understand that? I co-managed an office of 160 for 24 months. 70% men 30% women aged from 20-65. I think I have fair grasp on being human when required. At times you read the riot act, at times you mollycoddle and cajole. Every situation is different. Good leaders read their audience and adapt accordingly.

You have to do with care and understanding
You also have to be tough and make hard decisions

Isn't that what I said Leadership requires
Here is what I posted. You obviously didn't read one bit of it the first time.

He has to lead with complete fairness to all and make the hard decisions based on what is best for the Club
He must be clinical in his decision making and make those decisions purely based on facts.
He has to surround himself with the best he possibly can and let them get on with their jobs.
He must be unrelenting in demanding that everyone at the Club knows they are being employed for the betterment of the Club.
When issues arise he must ensure he or the relevant Manager deals with them quickly and professionally.
If he becomes aware of undermining or white anting anywhere within the Club, he needs to come down on it like a ton of bricks.
And my personal 2 rules. 1. No knee jerk reactions to issues. 2. The 1% doesn’t rule the 99%.



A lot of Hardwicks and Goodwin’s positions being retained was about gut feel
Perception

Says who? Reviews were done on both and decisions made based on the findings. Where has it been written anywhere that Gale said we have kept Hardwick on because that's what my gut says. More fictional rubbish


You can do all the reviews you like
And have as much paper work to look over
But
There are some things that you can’t learn reading a manual.

Yes but without the data and the personal interviews and the historical evidence, how does anyone formulate a clear and concise path to follow into the future. it is only once you have you detailed information from across the entire business, that you can go through it and work out the fact from the fiction. But alas, I forgot your own personal skill set......you can watch a 25 min media conference and judge a man running a $25 million dollar business on that. Spare me!


The really good leaders in my time had that extra human factor. There instinctive
And they are a rarity

And consequently the place normally ran like clockwork and everything flowed

Whether Cazzeman likes it or not women are better at that stuff

Whether I like it or not! Simply a stupid throwaway comment to make. Over 40+ years I have worked with men and women as leaders. Some good, some bad. Some Women were born leaders, other not. Likewise the men. For you to cover my mind set in relation to either gender in one sentence is again utter rubbish.



And when it is all said done, do you know what kind of man, husband, brother, father, leader, friend Sayers is?

If Sayers was to go with your 'Gut Feel' way of life, he probably doesn't need any form of process to find a new Coach. He just needs to line up 6 candidates against the wall ala 'The Usual Suspects' and each in turn says the words "I am the coach of Carlton'. And based on his gut feel he picks the winner. Also based on your 38 years of experience and beliefs, Sayers probably should have 3 of the 6 candidates as women.

Out the 81,000 members I wonder how many had even heard of Sayers or knew who he was prior to him taking over the Presidents role?
I certainly hadn't.

Regards Cazzesman


I’ve read everything you have said
You don’t have to put it in colour
You and I can agree to disagree on aspects of leadership

Otherwise it will be a cyclic argument
Bit like the six coaches the board’s sacked before their contract was up
Of which Sayers has been part of for nine years and he took virtually no ownership for that shit on Friday

I’ll be interested to see who is on the new board and what their plan is and if it’s better I’ll support them

And we can agree with one thing
There is growing disenchantment about this board from more and more supporters and the media is going with it
So take a Bex give Mrs Caz a cuddle and listen to everything she says


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