It is good to see so many optimistic Blues fans but the reality is the Hawks were a class above us. If they hadn't stopped playing half way through the second quarter they would have won by 100 points. We started playing when they stopped. I know we have a new game plan, which seem to be to handball it as many times as we can without going forward until we drop it.

I know this was only a 'practice' game, but what exactly were we practising? We don't need to practice handballing at a team mates feet, or landing passes a metre short or over the leading forwards head, or how to tackle without restraining the opponent, we're competition leaders at all those things and have been for 6 years without any noticeable improvement.

Basically our skills are still dreadful, as they have been for 6 years. And if we understand the game plan as poorly as we appeared to last night, then it will be a long season. Surely players should know where to run, how to create space etc. It looked like we had recruited the entire side from Ireland. Why on earth does a player need to wave his arms around to get someone upfield to move for him?

The positives were Grigg, looks classy and can kick, Bower, very agile, quick, good leap, use him as a running half back, breaking the lines. Yet another recruit who can't kick tho. Jamieson looks solid, Armfield looks willing, Gibbs and Murphy (apart from his kicking) were quite good, particularly after the Hawks went home, Big K will be a beauty and Hammo is promising but needs another 10 kilos. Hadley and Cloke provided some aggression - and boy do we need it, Hawthorn are miles tougher and nastier than us, yet 3 years ago they were behind us. We need to play Waite at CHF. Good news is we don't have another reality test against the Hawks until round 22.

Presumably we have recruited a lot of athletes who can't kcik or handball because we are going to teach them. Hopefully the tuition will start sometime in the next few weeks.

Ridiculous fixturing

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"I had to eat"

The first quarter was terrible Saturday night we made so many mistakes and I really don't think Hawthorn killed us as much as we killed ourselves. They did dominate the center for the second half of the first and the first part of the second but apart from that it was pretty even I thought, we did improve in the second half but the game was lost by then. I'm trying to remain as optimistic as possible after Saturday night as it is only pre season and we have alot of key personnel to come back into the side.

When we add Judd, Walker, Fisher, Setanta, Hartlett to the side it will make a huge difference.

The positives from Saturday for me were Gibbs who was fantastic, Simmo, Stevens, Kreuzer did some good things and Hampson who did well in the ruck.

My starting 22 for round one would be

Jamison, Setanta, Thornton
Scotland, Waite, Pfeiffer
Walker, Carrazzo, Gibbs
Simpson, Hartlett, Murphy
Houlihan, Fevola, Betts

Hampson, Stevens, Judd

Hadley, Bower, Cloke, Jackson.

I'd be inclined to start Kreuzer in the twos let him get his confidence up around the ground and in the ruck at VFL level and then bring him in a few rounds in, I'm more than happy to have Hampson and Cloke share the rucking duties against the tigers.

I also really believe that waitey can be used as an Adam Hunter type player, that is start him at CHB and if need be move him forward if we need him there. We have Setanta and Thornton who can cover CHB if need be and Jamison can then also do a big job.

All in all i'm looking forward to the year, i'm expecting some ups and downs, if we stay injury free for the majority of the year and start gelling together anythings possible.

I pi$$es me off no end when I hear garbage like this. It is possible for players to be caught sleeping at the wheel at the start of a game, but i REFUSE to believe that everytime a team loses momentum during a game is because "we took our foot off the gas"
Momentum swings in football and it's how well you use the momentum that defines your game, we had it in the first 5 minutes and didn't put any dmage on the scoreboard, had we kick 3 goals in the first five minutes like we should have then lets see how the game would have gone. Yes the Hawks side was a class above our side, but lets not forget that theirs was pretty much their best side, our was a very inexperienced side and certainly not our best.
I am not for one minute saying that we are a finals contender this year, but we are not a bottom 4 team either.

they took their foot off the gas. no doubt.

Keep your foot on the gas and you'll run out of petrol well before the end of the game - swings and roundabouts.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I don't know Steve, I reckon the Hawks had a few outs too. We were missing Judd, Walks, Fish, Setanta. They were missing Roughhead, Crawford, Sewell, Croad, and Franklin played for about 30 minutes. Apart from Judd, and he is a gun, I think the Hawks were as below strength as us.

Just on Franklin, was he being rested or does he have a niggle with that knee?

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Barack I am normally a man that can skip by these posts with no inclination of responding to, but with the sheer volume of this tripe it's just gets so damn hard to skip past it.
2005 it was tank to get Murphy as we will not go anywhere with our list and only the best talent will do. 2006 it was we need Gibbs to save us. Last year it was we have to tank to get Kruiser and Cotchin as they will be our saviour and now it's Natinui and Hurley, so who's going to be our saviour that we need to tanks for next year?????
I have one thing to say to you Barack - THE ONLY WAY TO WIN 1, 2 OR 10 PREMIERSHIPS IS TO WIN GAMES WEEK IN & WEEK OUT.

Totally Agree.

If Eddie had have kicked his first quarter shot at goal (like he should have) we would have been back to level and the game starts again. We certainly made some horrible mistakes in the midst of that Hawthorn onslaught but to say that Carlton did nothing to stem and then turn around the flow of the game is bollocks.

And who knows, if Big K's head had not still been rattling when he took his 9-point shot at goal it's suddenly 4 goals the diff with half a quarter to play.

I do not have rose-coloured glasses. I don't think we're close to playing finals but how can anyone not get excited by what Gibbs & Murphy were doing in that 3rd quarter.

These glimpses - and others - mean I am looking forward to this season not dreading it.

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

Fair call, but not the point I was making. How many of thier players have played less than 15 games versus the number of players that we had that have played <15 games?
Because we don't have the depth of talent that they do, the few players that weren't in our side hurts us more than the few they were missing. This is a problem that Pagan has left us in not giving enough oppertunity in the young players and standing by them when they were given an oppertunity.

There's a bit of comparison to Hawthorn's list and ours, probably because prior to Hawthorn being any good they were as woeful as us without the wooden spoons.

If we look at 2002 onwards, Hawthorn finished 10th, 9th, 15th, 14th, 11th before finally breaking into the 8 last year. During this time their playing list was pretty ordinary but they had a few top draft picks (Hodge, Franklin, Roughhead) plus a bunch of other 'unknown' young players that everyone probably thought they were hacks when they had played less than 50 games.

Nobody cared who Birchall, Brown, Campbell, Clarke, Ladson, Lewis, Osborne, Williams & Young were because for all intensive purposes they hadn't yet done enough to be on people's radar. Now they've been together for a few seasons and are putting things okay Hawthorn have this uber list and lists such as ours who are probably at the same stage as the Hawks were in 2004 are useless.

If we're still useless in 2009/2010 then we'd have cause for concern but I'm in the camp that says Ratten knows what he's doing and it will just take another season of knowing your team mates and understanding your role in the gameplan before one day people will be saying "shit who's this <insert supposed Carlton hack> kid, where did he come from?"

Or, we could turn out to be Richmond. Good God, I don't wish that upon anyone.

We were missing Roughead, Ladson, Crawford, Sewell, Guerra and Croad from our best 22. Then there's guys like Bailey, Thorp and Dew who we would expect to be well and truly entrenched in the side by season's end. Also, one cannot ignore the fact that Mitchell and Franklin barely played a minute after 1/4 time.

As for players having played <15 games, I calculate it as 11 each of those who played on Saturday night.

Carlton: Kreuzer, Grigg, Bower, Austin, Hampson, Armfield, Pfeiffer, Edwards, Jackson, Jamison, Ellard

Hawthorn: Muston, Tuck, Dawson, Moss, Murphy, Ellis, Rioli, Renouf, Morton, Kennedy, Stokes

So I'm not sure if and how that helps your point, but I agree that you're a couple of years off from having adequate depth. If guys like Judd, Stevens, Murphy or Fevola go down, you struggle. Clearly you have some quality coming through but, in my opionion, anyone talking about a top 8 finish in 2008 is being quite unrealistic.

A good & adequate development program with elite facilities is mandatory these days if premierships are to be won. The hawks have had that longer than us and it shows.

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There's so much I could say...

Unless there is another Mitchell in your team, he was there in the 3rd qtr as well as the second.

Franklin looked more injured than rested.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

show me geelongs elite facilities please

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

go look for your @#$%&! self!

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There's so much I could say...

Geelong's facilities are better than ours and they have a lot of assistance from community business for additional support. I only know through a mate who plays for their VFL side.

Too true.
He was'nt off the ground, he was just quiet!

Mitchell played on Bryce Gibbs. The same Gibbs who had 10 possessions, 4 clearances and 4 inside 50s for the quarter.
In fact, Gibbs left the ground to rest before Mitchell did. (leather poisoning)

And lets be serious Laza, lets not mention spuds like Dew, Ladson and Guerra in the same sentence as JUDD!

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Dawson

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...