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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:17 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Or look at it the other way....

Try your guts out to prove you're worth hanging on to.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:35 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Yup. No wonder we're so mentally weak, given what we keep hearing about players dropping their bundle when not being mollycoddled or told how awesome they are.

God, its like we have a team filled with 5 year olds

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:36 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Assuming what we're hearing is accurate which it's quite possibly not.....

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

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ThePsychologist wrote:
Hampson
Yarran
Betts
Mitchell
Davies
Scotland
Duigan
Dale
Buckley
Joseph


Why is Buckley on your list?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:22 am 
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formerly cj69

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BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Hampson
Yarran
Betts
Mitchell
Davies
Scotland
Duigan
Dale
Buckley
Joseph


Why is Buckley on your list?


I just don't think he's up to senior football. Has the skills but doesn't find the football enough and hasn't shown much improvement. Seems to me more of a small forward specialist than a mid and we have enough of those.

Just my opinion. A lot of good judges believe he is worth keeping. Wouldn't be unhappy seeing him get a rookie spot.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:28 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Assuming what we're hearing is accurate which it's quite possibly not.....

Even if it's not, it's often immediately assumed that this is what would happen. This perception has to come from somewhere, and I'd bet my house for many people it comes from seeing how soft/slack/dumb some of our players are during games. We saw examples of all three last week.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:37 am 
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Harry Vallence

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ThePsychologist wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Hampson
Yarran
Betts
Mitchell
Davies
Scotland
Duigan
Dale
Buckley
Joseph


Why is Buckley on your list?


I just don't think he's up to senior football. Has the skills but doesn't find the football enough and hasn't shown much improvement. Seems to me more of a small forward specialist than a mid and we have enough of those.

Just my opinion. A lot of good judges believe he is worth keeping. Wouldn't be unhappy seeing him get a rookie spot.


Sounds reasonable although I would hope he getes a rookie spot as you suggest. Probably needs to go to a few all you can eat buffets in the off season and build his body up a bit. But really I think a "son of a gun" in Buckley deserves another year at least.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:53 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Soft, dumb, slack footballers?

I'm sure Sydney had similar come into their system. Mitch Morton meets most of those criteria yet he's now a premiership player.
Unfortunately the system doesnt allow you to throw talented players out the door and restock them with more talented players. Chris Yarran was viewed as a lazy footballer before we drafted him. In his favour, he was viewed by those in the know as the most talented footballer to attend the Clontarf academy. A huge rap considering the players that have walked through their doors.

What are we doing to instil urgency into him? What have we done to progress him as a footballer? We're talking about a 22 year old kid who finished top 10 in our B&F as a 20 year old. Not a bad achievement in a team that performed in the finals.
Instead of talking about throwing half our list onto the scrap heap, perhaps our coaches should take some responsibility and actually develop what we have into good footballers. The coaches role is to oversee a strong, successful development program. We're not paying Mick a million dollars to throw our talented players because its too hard for him. Lets see him actually get something out of them.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:56 am 
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formerly cj69

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BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Hampson
Yarran
Betts
Mitchell
Davies
Scotland
Duigan
Dale
Buckley
Joseph


Why is Buckley on your list?


I just don't think he's up to senior football. Has the skills but doesn't find the football enough and hasn't shown much improvement. Seems to me more of a small forward specialist than a mid and we have enough of those.

Just my opinion. A lot of good judges believe he is worth keeping. Wouldn't be unhappy seeing him get a rookie spot.


Sounds reasonable although I would hope he gets a rookie spot as you suggest. Probably needs to go to a few all you can eat buffets in the off season and build his body up a bit. But really I think a "son of a gun" in Buckley deserves another year at least.


That's just what I see from the outside. I have no idea of contract status, coaches opinions etc.

I would assume that those I've listed above are under serious discussion as are Laidler, White, Watson, McCarthy, Ellard, Lucas, Robinson & OKeefe.

Be a very interesting trade period and generally there are a surprise or two.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:03 am 
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Craig Bradley
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In terms of what is being done to instil urgency into him - I wonder to what extent recruitment strategies for this off-season will go into picking up good leaders for the list, who may not necessarily fit the profile for where we're at as a club, but in the long run, go a long way toward rectifying our leadership issues.

An example of that may be Brad Sewell. I'd assume he'd be the most likely forced out should Buddy stay at Hawthorn. Is probably past his best, and would suffer even further from the same issues he's had at Hawthorn, with even less outside run around him, probably two years of football left at best. On the other - solid citizen, his work on AFL360 makes me think he'd be a handy addition to our midfield coaches after that, and probably can find the footy better than Curnow, whilst doing the defensive jobs still required. If nothing else - hey - he meets our long held "plays well against us" recruiting rule of thumb.

Mick barely held together the likes of Shaw, Swan, Thomas, Didak, etc. but did so with the assistance of on-field leaders like Burns, Licuria, Lockyer, Johnson, etc. How can we expect the same with our leadership group being so sub-standard?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:34 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Soft, dumb, slack footballers?

I'm sure Sydney had similar come into their system. Mitch Morton meets most of those criteria yet he's now a premiership player.
Unfortunately the system doesnt allow you to throw talented players out the door and restock them with more talented players. Chris Yarran was viewed as a lazy footballer before we drafted him. In his favour, he was viewed by those in the know as the most talented footballer to attend the Clontarf academy. A huge rap considering the players that have walked through their doors.

What are we doing to instil urgency into him? What have we done to progress him as a footballer? We're talking about a 22 year old kid who finished top 10 in our B&F as a 20 year old. Not a bad achievement in a team that performed in the finals.
Instead of talking about throwing half our list onto the scrap heap, perhaps our coaches should take some responsibility and actually develop what we have into good footballers. The coaches role is to oversee a strong, successful development program. We're not paying Mick a million dollars to throw our talented players because its too hard for him. Lets see him actually get something out of them.

It's the old chicken vs the egg argument. Were these guys doomed from the start, or were bad habits allowed to fester within the system we had in place? Who knows. But in the end, some may just be beyond help. Personally, I'm sick of seeing frustrating players kept around purely on talent and reputation alone, and of hearing excuses for them. When do the players have to accept responsibility for themselves? We've all witnessed the most classic example of this first-hand, and the damage it can cause.

And again, using Sydney as the example, no-one would rate them as the most talented, but would sure as shit rate them as one of the most disciplined and hard-working. No way can we make this team Sydney'esque overnight, or even before many of our softer players have truly matured and/or peaked. But perhaps by being more ruthless and showing genuine consequences for not putting in, maybe those with some hope left might just wake up. This might mean seeing some of their highly-fancied mates get the boot.

I give Mick the benefit of the doubt this year for 2 reasons:
1) A proven track record of getting the best out of players, and surrounding himself with professional backup staff to implement his plans.
2) The fact that when he first joined he was stuck with dead-weight from the previous coaching hierarchy (both in terms of players and personnel), and thus unable to get the sort of people he would've genuinely wanted.

In 2014 he'll be more able to make this team what he wants it to be, without inheriting the burdens of previous dumb choices of the past. Thus, if we're still having these conversations in 12 months time, then I'll be the first in line throwing the questions. Until then, I want to see what he can do with this team/club with the shackles now off.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:44 am 
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Harry Vallence

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The Rhino wrote:
Mick barely held together the likes of Shaw, Swan, Thomas, Didak, etc. but did so with the assistance of on-field leaders like Burns, Licuria, Lockyer, Johnson, etc. How can we expect the same with our leadership group being so sub-standard?


That's a great point and to me (and many others it seems), the crux of our on-field woes; the complete lack of leadership.

And I don't think it's easily fixed by simply hiring an extra assistant and drafting the kid who has "leadership qualities" next to his positive attributes column at Draft Camp.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:50 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Blue Vain wrote:
Soft, dumb, slack footballers?

I'm sure Sydney had similar come into their system. Mitch Morton meets most of those criteria yet he's now a premiership player.
Unfortunately the system doesnt allow you to throw talented players out the door and restock them with more talented players. Chris Yarran was viewed as a lazy footballer before we drafted him. In his favour, he was viewed by those in the know as the most talented footballer to attend the Clontarf academy. A huge rap considering the players that have walked through their doors.

What are we doing to instil urgency into him? What have we done to progress him as a footballer? We're talking about a 22 year old kid who finished top 10 in our B&F as a 20 year old. Not a bad achievement in a team that performed in the finals.
Instead of talking about throwing half our list onto the scrap heap, perhaps our coaches should take some responsibility and actually develop what we have into good footballers. The coaches role is to oversee a strong, successful development program. We're not paying Mick a million dollars to throw our talented players because its too hard for him. Lets see him actually get something out of them.



Just to logical.

Who needs to work for their money, especially ifyou can shift blame.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:57 am 
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Rod Ashman
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ThePsychologist wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Hampson
Yarran
Betts
Mitchell
Davies
Scotland
Duigan
Dale
Buckley
Joseph


Why is Buckley on your list?


I just don't think he's up to senior football. Has the skills but doesn't find the football enough and hasn't shown much improvement. Seems to me more of a small forward specialist than a mid and we have enough of those.

Just my opinion. A lot of good judges believe he is worth keeping. Wouldn't be unhappy seeing him get a rookie spot.



Buckley needs to be played in the back pocket against small fast forwards.

They have cut us up on a consistent level because we lack a tenacious, fast player.

Buckley is the type and will benefit greatly with the experience until he is moved to a more attacking role.
:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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I would play Buckley as half fp, half mid cos I think that scrawny kid has huge nads. Kid is like bamboo, will bend but won't break, is stronger than he looks cos he is hard in the mind and will go every time and help instill real hard standards he is another to fast track in seniors, ressies won't do any more for him

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-09/b ... -stay-mick

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Effes wrote:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-09/betts-will-stay-mick


To me he sounds like I've opened my mouth up too much without thinking and I need to try and get some respect and maybe ascendency back from the playing group.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-coach-mick-malthouse-hopes-to-sign-eddie-betts-dismisses-wide-ranging-list-changes/story-fndv8f7j-1226694262074
Quote:
Carlton coach Mick Malthouse hopes to sign Eddie Betts, dismisses wide-ranging list changes

Quote:
CARLTON has dismissed suggestions it will cut 10 players from its list at season's end, and hopes restricted free agent Eddie Betts will sign a new contract in the next month.

Coach Mick Malthouse said the Blues had not yet determined which players would be delisted or available for trade, and did not expect the Blues cut deeper into their list than any other club outside the eight.

"As far as cutting lists go, it's an atrocious word to be used in a football club. It is reality," Malthouse said. "In my case, I call it moving players on in an elite sporting environment when the club is currently ninth.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
I would play Buckley as half fp, half mid cos I think that scrawny kid has huge nads. Kid is like bamboo, will bend but won't break, is stronger than he looks cos he is hard in the mind and will go every time and help instill real hard standards he is another to fast track in seniors, ressies won't do any more for him

Full stop key broken?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:55 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Sending off iPhone....

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