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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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BamBam7 wrote:
I reckon Kennedy is named sub, if fit.

Based purely on the assumption that Voss might want him to have some touches at AFL level under his belt, in case he needs to start later in the finals.

How about we take it one week at a time? :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:11 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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aboynamedsue wrote:
BamBam7 wrote:
I reckon Kennedy is named sub, if fit.

Based purely on the assumption that Voss might want him to have some touches at AFL level under his belt, in case he needs to start later in the finals.

How about we take it one week at a time? :wink:


Not unreasonable to put some planning into the possibility that we may have more games to come

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Dance with what brung ya. Harry hasn’t played 2nd ruck for six years and we’re going to turn him into one on the eve of the finals? I think we should let Harry focus on his strengths at this point.

I also think TDK benefits from having Pittonet or SOJ share the load. If Pittonet is fit, I would have him in to set a brutal physical tone, with TDK jumping over the top of them later in the terms.


I'm not totally averse to them playing Pitto if the MC believe it is beneficial but I'm not sure where Harry has played for 6 years is overly relevant. When you consider the overwhelming majority of those years we were crap. So I'm probably not going to use them as a measure.
The one year we are making finals, we've won 100% of games without Harry and less than 50% with him in the side. The games we won were against 3 top 8 sides and the game he went off in the first quarter injured, we beat a top 2 side that had won 13 straight. I'm not saying that's Harry's fault but more a reflection on how 3 tall forwards impact our team.

It's not a personal pot on Harry. Nothing would make me happier than to see him fire up and be a match winner. It's about minimising the deficiencies of players and translating that to success.
I don't believe his "strengths" are sufficient at the moment. And the fact he was tried in the ruck suggests to me either Harry or the MC have similar concerns. If he plays and we play Pitto/TDK, we're playing 3 tall forwards. 2 that are shitful shots at goal.
Yes Pitto is physical, TDK is athletic and Harry is a good mark on the lead but the negatives as a collective outweigh the positives structurally IMHO.


Considering the overall needs of the team, I would argue that the 2nd ruck position is more important to our structure than the 2nd key forward. At the moment, Harry is either a permanent forward or not in the team, IMO. The MC should have tried Harry as 2nd ruck earlier in the season if they intended to play him there in the finals. He hasn’t played there all year (prior to Rd 24) and, as far as I can recall, he hasn’t played there since 2017. He has never shown any aptitude for the position. He can work on developing his ruck craft over the preseason, not in an elimination final.



based on that - taking into account harry's form. i wouldn't name him in the team for swans.

pitto/ tdk ruck

curnow/ martin with resting tdk up front with a swarm of smalls in attack.


if everyone on our list was fit, i'd name SOS in there over pittonet.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:34 pm 
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Yeah people are talking about it being a choice between Pittonet and a small, but it isn’t necessarily.

Having said that, it would be a gutsy decision to drop Harry.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:58 pm 
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You’d have to be snacking on Leongatha mushies to drop Harry.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Braithy wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Dance with what brung ya. Harry hasn’t played 2nd ruck for six years and we’re going to turn him into one on the eve of the finals? I think we should let Harry focus on his strengths at this point.

I also think TDK benefits from having Pittonet or SOJ share the load. If Pittonet is fit, I would have him in to set a brutal physical tone, with TDK jumping over the top of them later in the terms.


I'm not totally averse to them playing Pitto if the MC believe it is beneficial but I'm not sure where Harry has played for 6 years is overly relevant. When you consider the overwhelming majority of those years we were crap. So I'm probably not going to use them as a measure.
The one year we are making finals, we've won 100% of games without Harry and less than 50% with him in the side. The games we won were against 3 top 8 sides and the game he went off in the first quarter injured, we beat a top 2 side that had won 13 straight. I'm not saying that's Harry's fault but more a reflection on how 3 tall forwards impact our team.

It's not a personal pot on Harry. Nothing would make me happier than to see him fire up and be a match winner. It's about minimising the deficiencies of players and translating that to success.
I don't believe his "strengths" are sufficient at the moment. And the fact he was tried in the ruck suggests to me either Harry or the MC have similar concerns. If he plays and we play Pitto/TDK, we're playing 3 tall forwards. 2 that are shitful shots at goal.
Yes Pitto is physical, TDK is athletic and Harry is a good mark on the lead but the negatives as a collective outweigh the positives structurally IMHO.


Considering the overall needs of the team, I would argue that the 2nd ruck position is more important to our structure than the 2nd key forward. At the moment, Harry is either a permanent forward or not in the team, IMO. The MC should have tried Harry as 2nd ruck earlier in the season if they intended to play him there in the finals. He hasn’t played there all year (prior to Rd 24) and, as far as I can recall, he hasn’t played there since 2017. He has never shown any aptitude for the position. He can work on developing his ruck craft over the preseason, not in an elimination final.



based on that - taking into account harry's form. i wouldn't name him in the team for swans.



Now you've done it. Syd will be breathing fire when he reads this thread :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 3:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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aboynamedsue wrote:
Yeah people are talking about it being a choice between Pittonet and a small, but it isn’t necessarily.

Having said that, it would be a gutsy decision to drop Harry.


Issue for me is Harry is just back, get's two games then a break. He needed to keep playing. He needs games. His form has been average but he can turn it aorund quickly

The balance of the side does worry me but I am a bit more comfortable having the extra tall at the MCG


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 3:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Crusader wrote:
You’d have to be snacking on Leongatha mushies to drop Harry.



i can't wait to see you, and give you a big old hug!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 3:37 pm 
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Yeah people are talking about it being a choice between Pittonet and a small, but it isn’t necessarily.

Having said that, it would be a gutsy decision to drop Harry.


It’s a conundrum. The solution is silvagni. I think we are perfectly balanced with him playing third tall / second ruck in place of Pitto. Unfortunately he won’t be available. Do we take the risk on him in week 2?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 3:47 pm 
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jake_h03 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Yeah people are talking about it being a choice between Pittonet and a small, but it isn’t necessarily.

Having said that, it would be a gutsy decision to drop Harry.


It’s a conundrum. The solution is silvagni. I think we are perfectly balanced with him playing third tall / second ruck in place of Pitto. Unfortunately he won’t be available. Do we take the risk on him in week 2?


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sos is about repeat efforts, hustle plays (all those smothers) and 1%'ers. you could pretty easily bring him into the run on team after a break more so than anyone else we have.

he has to be 100% fit tho


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 3:57 pm 
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Braithy wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Yeah people are talking about it being a choice between Pittonet and a small, but it isn’t necessarily.

Having said that, it would be a gutsy decision to drop Harry.


It’s a conundrum. The solution is silvagni. I think we are perfectly balanced with him playing third tall / second ruck in place of Pitto. Unfortunately he won’t be available. Do we take the risk on him in week 2?


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sos is about repeat efforts, hustle plays (all those smothers) and 1%'ers. you could pretty easily bring him into the run on team after a break more so than anyone else we have.

he has to be 100% fit tho


Sounds good to me. That would solve our biggest problem


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:33 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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It's just a massive decision for the MC to make, isn't it? I was concerned last week when we only played TDK. I'm sure Vossy's thinking was that we would have a look at what Harry could do. We know that outcome. Harry in a CHF who will run up to the wing and take those clutch marks when needed. Must be in the team. Agree with others that SOS is the answer but he won't be there against the Swans. Agree we are too top heavy with Pitto and TDK. I don't know the answer....


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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eric pascoe wrote:
It's just a massive decision for the MC to make, isn't it? I was concerned last week when we only played TDK. I'm sure Vossy's thinking was that we would have a look at what Harry could do. We know that outcome. Harry in a CHF who will run up to the wing and take those clutch marks when needed. Must be in the team. Agree with others that SOS is the answer but he won't be there against the Swans. Agree we are too top heavy with Pitto and TDK. I don't know the answer....



The answer to me is easy. Harry needs to grow a pair, knock a few over and make opponents fear getting in his way. He needs to play like it means the world to him.

Pretty simple really.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Dance with what brung ya. Harry hasn’t played 2nd ruck for six years and we’re going to turn him into one on the eve of the finals? I think we should let Harry focus on his strengths at this point.

I also think TDK benefits from having Pittonet or SOJ share the load. If Pittonet is fit, I would have him in to set a brutal physical tone, with TDK jumping over the top of them later in the terms.


I'm not totally averse to them playing Pitto if the MC believe it is beneficial but I'm not sure where Harry has played for 6 years is overly relevant. When you consider the overwhelming majority of those years we were crap. So I'm probably not going to use them as a measure.
The one year we are making finals, we've won 100% of games without Harry and less than 50% with him in the side. The games we won were against 3 top 8 sides and the game he went off in the first quarter injured, we beat a top 2 side that had won 13 straight. I'm not saying that's Harry's fault but more a reflection on how 3 tall forwards impact our team.

It's not a personal pot on Harry. Nothing would make me happier than to see him fire up and be a match winner. It's about minimising the deficiencies of players and translating that to success.
I don't believe his "strengths" are sufficient at the moment. And the fact he was tried in the ruck suggests to me either Harry or the MC have similar concerns. If he plays and we play Pitto/TDK, we're playing 3 tall forwards. 2 that are shitful shots at goal.
Yes Pitto is physical, TDK is athletic and Harry is a good mark on the lead but the negatives as a collective outweigh the positives structurally IMHO.


Considering the overall needs of the team, I would argue that the 2nd ruck position is more important to our structure than the 2nd key forward. At the moment, Harry is either a permanent forward or not in the team, IMO. The MC should have tried Harry as 2nd ruck earlier in the season if they intended to play him there in the finals. He hasn’t played there all year (prior to Rd 24) and, as far as I can recall, he hasn’t played there since 2017. He has never shown any aptitude for the position. He can work on developing his ruck craft over the preseason, not in an elimination final.



based on that - taking into account harry's form. i wouldn't name him in the team for swans.



Now you've done it. Syd will be breathing fire when he reads this thread :lol:
Career stats
Charlie 107 games 221 goals
Harry 105 games 201 goals

Charlie is regarded as the best forward in the comp
Harry is not far behind him based on those numbers

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:02 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Can we use Cripps or McGovern as second ruck?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:27 am 
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Rod Ashman

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I think Voss knows exactly what he wants to do and what we are going to do.
I wouldn’t read too much into anything from the GWS game when nothing was on the line and we could reveal or obscure our hand to our potential finals opponents.
We have had weeks to work this out under immense pressure and Vossy is built for finals.
He knows what’s required; after the last couple of months he knows exactly what we have at our disposal. He knows all the trade-offs we’re discussing on this site.
We got this.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:27 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Hope you're right! The one thing making me a tad nervous is the coaches box... I trust Voss, but Longmire has so much big game experience and can be very crafty... he will do something unexpected so I hope we're ready for anything. We have the better players; I see plenty of Swans games due to the NSW Ch7 schedule and even during their strong recent W/L record they've not really been that impressive.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Career stats
Charlie 107 games 221 goals
Harry 105 games 201 goals

Charlie is regarded as the best forward in the comp
Harry is not far behind him based on those numbers


Brendan Fevola. 204 games 623 goals.
But that doesn't mean we'll select him next week. You know as well as anyone Syd, selection is based on your form. Not what you did 5 years ago.
Harry needs to offer more than he currently does. Not necessarily to hold his spot but to assist the team to succeed. That's what we all want. To see every player at their best, helping to bring team success.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:53 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Career stats
Charlie 107 games 221 goals
Harry 105 games 201 goals

Charlie is regarded as the best forward in the comp
Harry is not far behind him based on those numbers


Context is a wonderful thing. Charlie played 50 odd games in his first 3 years when he was an 18-20 year old kid. He then got injured just as he was finding his feet and missed 2.5 years. On the other hand Harry spent the first 3 years developing in the 2s, so he’s had a lot more games at a later stage of development. If Charlie had that timeline and played consistently throughout 2019-2021, he’d be miles in front.

Regardless, Harry is a Coleman medalist and one of the dominant key forwards in the league at his best. The problem is he hasn’t been at his best for a while and has looked super rusty since coming back from injury. He seems to have lost his contested marking which was his biggest strength when he first broke out. Sometimes I wonder if he’s bulked up too much and lost some of his athleticism and ability to get separation and take the ball at it’s highest point. Maybe he’s just out of form

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:03 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Heard Papley just walked laps at training.

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