Possibly but why then did the Pies lose 10 of their last 11 in 2005?

bananas it is.

Hmmm ... thank you.

Any excuse for the super duper coach.

I hope we do finish that high.

Top 6. I won't say top 4 - even though we expected that in 2012 because people here we'll get precious. I'm willing for us to go backwards a little but top 6 is what I expect with a experienced coach and top draft picks on our list.

Don't worry about including me in response to me and my effort to bring facts to the forefront of your emotional war, in your quest for the truth, quest for glory, the game of one upmanship, assault on the MM fans, whatever it is you're doing because I'm not interested in a war of words which is plain old dismissive of any facts, good argument and disrespectful of opinion and effort.

I'm outa here.

CARLTON is fighting its worst injury crisis in a decade as the club attempts to turn last week's win against the Western Bulldogs into a last-gasp run for the finals in the last six rounds.

Should coaches be concerned about sports injury? Can coaches have any impact on the rates of injury in their particular sport?
The impact of injury on performance is obvious: injury invariably means non-participation or impaired performance. The injury records from the Australian Football League (AFL) show that over the last 20 years the Premiership has usually been won by the team with the lowest, or one of the lowest, injury counts.

Playing the man and taking your bat and ball to go home.
I thought you were better than that Bondi.

Lets get one thing straight. I'm debating the topic on its merits. Claiming its an "emotional war" for me is petulant and untrue.
I admit Ratten made a lot of mistakes. I've previously mentioned we lost games early in the 2012 season because he was out coached.
He showed little leadership and he was fortunate to get the job in the first place.

The frustration for me is the assertion that injuries didn't impact our performance significantly last year.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/c ... 22qx4.html



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/c ... z2Wi3LQO00

What a coincidence that the last time we had a similar injury toll, we finished last.
Its also no coincidence that the last time Collingwood had a substantial injury toll, they finished second last.

Here's an excerpt from an Australian Sports Commission paper. "Coaches and sports injury"

http://www.ausport.gov.au/sportscoachma ... rts_injury



So, if you want to talk facts, they're the facts.
Carlton had their worst injury toll for a decade last year. Fact.
Over the past 20 years, the premiership has usually been won by the team with the lowest or one of the lowest injury tolls.
Direct correlation! Fact.
The last team coached by Malthouse with a similar injury list finished second last. Fact.

So, spare me the "Ratts was finished", "Ratts had lost the players" "Malthouse is God like" rants. They're the emotional comments.
I'm more than happy to debate the issue based on the facts. Claiming otherwise is rubbish.

What a load of shit.

Why don't you guys just stop sledging MM and second guessing as to who likes him and who doesn't and concentrate back on the footy. Theres half a season ahead of us.

If you dont think MM is a respected coach in the media you should just forget about footy because all you are is a sludgemeister.

We have enough flower opposition supporters having a go at our club, let alone umpires, so if you're a Carlton supporter then just start concentrating on that...ie Carlton playing footy or !@#$%& off.

There's a big exciting IF of us and that is IF we beat the Swans we have a great opportunity to win the next 9 in a row. That's a seriously big possibility. That's what we should be looking forward to not shitting ourselves about what opposition think of us....we are winning respect...bit by bit.

We were supposed to be slaughtered last week against Hawks and in fact we should've won. Everyone in the footy world saw us lose the opportunity because of shit umpiring and lost opportunities...only a couple...and we would've won....everyone knows that and that we're not that far...they are shitting about our resurgence.

We're a better team than last year. MM has done good things, now lets cross our fingers and hope for 9 in a row and hopefully 10 with an unlikely Swans win in Sydney: we're not that far off the pace. Then when we get our opportunity against Collingwood, Essendon* and Freo all in Melbourne we might win all those..and if theose teams lose 1-2 more than that which is likely (having to face Cats, Hawks and Swans, we may end up higher on the ladder.

For those writing us off....just remember we're at the half way with 10 games to go.

Come September and dry fast tracks are the norm we will still have the fastses team going around and our game plan and team would have been settled.

I believe something special is building and we have to win a flag whilst Juddy is still playing (and hopefully Scotto and Simmo). We will get some BIG recruits next year, but this year aint over.

In MM we have to trust. Now cross your fingers and start with some positive chants.....

BV you have just shown how dismissive you are of the facts put forward.

Out of respect for your request for supportive evidence in this discussion and for respect of the efforts thus far from the team of 2013 I collated a fair bit of proof to support my argument. Totally.

Your response "I believe we were decimated by injury and that is an overwhelming contributing factor.
You don't. We'll have to agree to disagree." totally ignores any point I made...and you just conclude with agree to disagree....you what? Can't agree with anything I said. Sorry, but that type of grandeur borders on dellusional imo. Sorry to say that, but you're lacking anything close to balance, middle ground, probability let alone possibilty based on FACTS.

What I put forward were facts so we can get to the bottom of the argument...(an argument I just realised you are having with yourself)...its not what I believe...its FACTS I have presented. Most losses in 2012 were not affected because of injury, 2-3 players missing in a game is nort decimated by injury...and especially towards the end of the year when players could've played for the coach when we only had a couple missing to injury (and we've had more missing to injury this year which we've won mind you) and the players lost the game because the coach had lost the players: Saints? GC? How do you account for that BV? No, those losses did not happen because of injury. We had more missing in the Melbourne and Port game this year than we did in those 2 games.

I too have used the excuse of injury of 2012 but that's all part of the banter. Gotta have some excuse, and I'm not going to shy from it if the third party can't prove me wrong. The truth is that excuse of injury is usually the crutch for those who cant handle the truth. Hearts and minds, intestinal fortitude, game plan, preparation , development were all below par last year...they are real issues with all weak teams. We were weakened by the coach, his coaching staff and the recruiters who got us in the mess.

I know that some of our top 10 players did not dislike Ratts but he was not moving their hearts and minds...he had lost them in translation.

You have to accept the facts. I've never wanted to use the information against my team...but its the truth... so you can come off your high horse to disuss the situation in a more balanced and fair way. You are putting a lot of people off and off side with your attitude towards them. I'm trying to ignore your ignorance and remember BV for his footy knowledge.

You are imbalanced with your viewpoint on the coaches in this and other threads. You are blinded by your hatred of MM and posters presenting facts for their position in favour of MM. Yeah you might understand games plans, and I respect that, but no better than me and many others who are well versed in the modern game. Did you speak with any of the players regarding issues with the 2012 coach? Sticks didn't sack his mate for nothing. You have to accept that.

This is not about points scoring BV, just intelligent conversation. The discussion with you are having has eroded into something...that's your problem big buddy....and not going to be mine.

Don't worry about including me in response to me and my effort to bring facts to the forefront of your emotional war, in your quest for the truth, quest for glory, the game of one upmanship, assault on the MM fans, whatever it is you're doing because I'm not interested in a war of words which is plain old dismissive of any facts, good argument and disrespectful of opinion and effort.

I'm outa here.

Lets get back to football and the imrpovement needed for this club. Ratts is gone. MM is not going anywhere. What does he need to do to improve this list? That's what we want to discuss.

i reckon we could have had afew coaches not ratten and it would have been better.

no leadership in this group after over 5 seasons with ratts??

if you want to point to something thats not on .. thats it right there...!!!..

we all laughed when maxwell was appointed captain over at collingwood and we had juddy....



malthouse created a leadership environment .. we didnt

..the thing with last year, was that the wheels were falling off before the injury toll got truely worse.. ..we were worked out as a team, and our plan A was easily pulled apart and used against us, we never had a plan B.. ..we rarely played with team-wide defensive intent and structure.. ..did our injury toll play a part with us missing finals?, sure.. ..would be have been top 4 with less injuries?, i doubt it.. ..our game plan was built upon a few stars playing out of their skins, it was not sustainable, and once strong/better teams locked down those few we crumbled, as evidenced over the last few years..

[Over the past 20 years, the premiership has usually been won by the team with the lowest or one of the lowest injury tolls.
Direct correlation! Fact.
The last team coached by Malthouse with a similar injury list finished second last. Fact.