Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Mon Jun 23, 2025 6:28 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6401 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125 ... 321  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:54 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 6923
BigBlueWave wrote:
I just hope Laidler doesn't have a blinder this weekend ... could be a further embarrassment to the Super Duper coach.


Why would anyone hope he plays a blinder for that matter?

He got traded to another club, a successful club at that, and someone out there is advocating him blinding spectators? Fred Hollows is long dead, mate, and couldn't rectify such a situation, or any potential one where you or I were potentially blinded by Eddie Betts wandering a football ground with a sharp object stabbing people in the eyes.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:54 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24645
Location: Kaloyasena
moshe25 wrote:
Sugarcane wrote:
Am I happy the club are not going to play finals this year? NO

Am I happy we have had two poor seasons in a row (that said I am in the camp that believes *Ess didn’t deserve to play finals last year because their performances might have been assisted, which means we were a deserved finals team – which is corroborated by the fact we won our first final, and let’s not forget CFC under Malthouse actually improved their ladder position in 2013 vis a vis 2012)? NO

Do I think our slide down the ladder is Mick’s fault? NO

It is possible for good coaches to oversee teams slide down the ladder you know? Mick’s Coll went down the bottom then came back up and won a Flag. Remember, the coach isn’t the one who takes to the field and handballs and kicks and marks and runs and shoots for goal and defends. The players do this. I know that might come as a surprise to you but it is actually true.

The coach can try to implement a game plan (which btw looked alright against Haw, Geel, Coll lately), can try to lift confidence and belief, can delegate certain roles to assistant coaches, can work with the list manager (don’t think we have one FT at CFC which doesn’t help) and recruitment manager to shape the list over time etc, but at the end of the day he is not the one who has to go out there and make it happen.

If you have mediocre players or a list in transition a coach’s hands are pretty much tied. Which is what I think has happened to Carlton the last few years. I’d put it to you this is fact and pretty much undebatable for 2 reasons …

1. Our recruitment for a long time has been rubbish. This has been widely publicized both in here but also in the football media.
2. We have a midfield (note : the midfield in the modern caper is the most important part of a team, the engine room as they say) in transition. The established core, the guys who basically WERE the midfield for years (Judd, Scotland, Carrazzo, Mclean) are nearing the end or are already cooked (Simpson is the only veteran still going strong). Coupled with the fact we have not drafted quality midfielders to replace this decaying midfield core (the draft concessions to GWS/GC being contributing factors of course), and the fact the likes of Murphy (injury), Thomas (injury) and Gibbs (self belief??) have struggled for various reasons to emerge as true, bona fide midfield leaders, it is folly to suggest this midfield which is in transition isn’t a major factor contributing to our current predicament.

It probably doesn’t help Waite hasn’t become the player we hoped he would become, that Betts left (I believe the recruitment of Thomas cannot be judged until he has played his second year post his ankle reco), that Judd missed most of the year, that we had an apparently record high number of post season injuries. In fact the latter point on its own could be a reason for our 2014 performance.

Do you get it now?? Ageing/decaying midfield core, terrible drafting, record number of post season operations. And you blame the coach?? Sorry but I think you’re delusional. To me it’s a no brainer.

Have you ever heard the term a coach is only as good as the stock available to him? Sort of makes sense doesn’t it? Hard to make a good cake when you have bad ingredients.

What has Mick done then??

Well he has been a genius of sorts shifting Rowe to defence. He has it would appear helped Levi get fit and develop some inner belief. He has overseen a marked improvement in White. There alone he has basically found 3 KPPS many of us probably thought would never make the grade. He has turned Yarran into a very, very good player. He has overseen a marked improvement in Gibbs. He was instrumental in getting Everitt across, who right now would probably be in the top 5 in the B&F. He has backed our besieged captain to the hilt. He has thrown down the gauntlet to Jeff and Waite – hopefully he can turn them around like he has Yarran. He has managed to get very admirable efforts of late against some of the best sides going around, only lack of skill letting he and the club down. He has helped Robinson have his best year to date. He has basically seen the face of the 22 change by about 10 names in 12 months, a huge feat and evidence he is introducing new, mostly young blood into the team despite the ridiculous bellyaching of silly fans who seem incapable of seeing beyond Nick Graham.

About the only thing he hasn’t done well is he has overseen some poor efforts against lowly sides. But arguably that is an onfield leadership problem as much as a coaching problem. Therein lies another question for you – do you think CFC have one of the better leadership groups going around? Isn’t it well publicized the list is full of introverts? Mick is not a psychologist you know!

Maybe the other thing he is guilty of is over rating the list. But then it was he who coached Coll 2 years back when I think it was in R3 Carlton with a fit and firing Judd, Betts, Henderson, Scotland etc hammered his Coll to become premiership favourites overnight. Can’t blame him for thinking Carlton were pretty good at that point in time.

And therein lies the proof in the pudding that things can change quickly in 2 years.

But I am sure you’ll throw your blinkers on, stick your head in the sand and find ways to argue our performances are all Mick’s fault despite the fact he has a list in transition with a decaying midfield core, a list built by systematically terrible recruiting for years, a list inflicted by a record number of post season surgeries … oh and have I mentioned the fact in year one Mick was unable to shape the list because players were contracted and the cap was loaded meaning hardly any list changes were possible?

:clap: :clap: :clap: Your best post in 10 years, Blackers.



Don't know if it's your best post in 10 years, but I have to agree it's the best summary I have read on TC about the current state of our team.

Beautifully stated.

:clap:

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:55 pm 
Offline
formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
moshe25 wrote:
Sugarcane wrote:
Am I happy the club are not going to play finals this year? NO

Am I happy we have had two poor seasons in a row (that said I am in the camp that believes *Ess didn’t deserve to play finals last year because their performances might have been assisted, which means we were a deserved finals team – which is corroborated by the fact we won our first final, and let’s not forget CFC under Malthouse actually improved their ladder position in 2013 vis a vis 2012)? NO

Do I think our slide down the ladder is Mick’s fault? NO

It is possible for good coaches to oversee teams slide down the ladder you know? Mick’s Coll went down the bottom then came back up and won a Flag. Remember, the coach isn’t the one who takes to the field and handballs and kicks and marks and runs and shoots for goal and defends. The players do this. I know that might come as a surprise to you but it is actually true.

The coach can try to implement a game plan (which btw looked alright against Haw, Geel, Coll lately), can try to lift confidence and belief, can delegate certain roles to assistant coaches, can work with the list manager (don’t think we have one FT at CFC which doesn’t help) and recruitment manager to shape the list over time etc, but at the end of the day he is not the one who has to go out there and make it happen.

If you have mediocre players or a list in transition a coach’s hands are pretty much tied. Which is what I think has happened to Carlton the last few years. I’d put it to you this is fact and pretty much undebatable for 2 reasons …

1. Our recruitment for a long time has been rubbish. This has been widely publicized both in here but also in the football media.
2. We have a midfield (note : the midfield in the modern caper is the most important part of a team, the engine room as they say) in transition. The established core, the guys who basically WERE the midfield for years (Judd, Scotland, Carrazzo, Mclean) are nearing the end or are already cooked (Simpson is the only veteran still going strong). Coupled with the fact we have not drafted quality midfielders to replace this decaying midfield core (the draft concessions to GWS/GC being contributing factors of course), and the fact the likes of Murphy (injury), Thomas (injury) and Gibbs (self belief??) have struggled for various reasons to emerge as true, bona fide midfield leaders, it is folly to suggest this midfield which is in transition isn’t a major factor contributing to our current predicament.

It probably doesn’t help Waite hasn’t become the player we hoped he would become, that Betts left (I believe the recruitment of Thomas cannot be judged until he has played his second year post his ankle reco), that Judd missed most of the year, that we had an apparently record high number of post season injuries. In fact the latter point on its own could be a reason for our 2014 performance.

Do you get it now?? Ageing/decaying midfield core, terrible drafting, record number of post season operations. And you blame the coach?? Sorry but I think you’re delusional. To me it’s a no brainer.

Have you ever heard the term a coach is only as good as the stock available to him? Sort of makes sense doesn’t it? Hard to make a good cake when you have bad ingredients.

What has Mick done then??

Well he has been a genius of sorts shifting Rowe to defence. He has it would appear helped Levi get fit and develop some inner belief. He has overseen a marked improvement in White. There alone he has basically found 3 KPPS many of us probably thought would never make the grade. He has turned Yarran into a very, very good player. He has overseen a marked improvement in Gibbs. He was instrumental in getting Everitt across, who right now would probably be in the top 5 in the B&F. He has backed our besieged captain to the hilt. He has thrown down the gauntlet to Jeff and Waite – hopefully he can turn them around like he has Yarran. He has managed to get very admirable efforts of late against some of the best sides going around, only lack of skill letting he and the club down. He has helped Robinson have his best year to date. He has basically seen the face of the 22 change by about 10 names in 12 months, a huge feat and evidence he is introducing new, mostly young blood into the team despite the ridiculous bellyaching of silly fans who seem incapable of seeing beyond Nick Graham.

About the only thing he hasn’t done well is he has overseen some poor efforts against lowly sides. But arguably that is an onfield leadership problem as much as a coaching problem. Therein lies another question for you – do you think CFC have one of the better leadership groups going around? Isn’t it well publicized the list is full of introverts? Mick is not a psychologist you know!

Maybe the other thing he is guilty of is over rating the list. But then it was he who coached Coll 2 years back when I think it was in R3 Carlton with a fit and firing Judd, Betts, Henderson, Scotland etc hammered his Coll to become premiership favourites overnight. Can’t blame him for thinking Carlton were pretty good at that point in time.

And therein lies the proof in the pudding that things can change quickly in 2 years.

But I am sure you’ll throw your blinkers on, stick your head in the sand and find ways to argue our performances are all Mick’s fault despite the fact he has a list in transition with a decaying midfield core, a list built by systematically terrible recruiting for years, a list inflicted by a record number of post season surgeries … oh and have I mentioned the fact in year one Mick was unable to shape the list because players were contracted and the cap was loaded meaning hardly any list changes were possible?

:clap: :clap: :clap: Your best post in 10 years, Blackers.


:clap:

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:03 pm 
Offline
formerly BlueRob
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3073
dane wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
I just hope Laidler doesn't have a blinder this weekend ... could be a further embarrassment to the Super Duper coach.


How many blinders has he played for the swans?


Well he has played all year for the Swans (a team that Tricky Micky says has the deepest list) ... and yet he was not versatile enough for the Super Duper coach?

I didn't say he has played a blinder nor did I say that I wanted him to play a blinder ... :smile:

I just said that if he did it would be further embarrassment to Dr Strangelove ... The fact is ...even playing the whole season for the swans is an embarrassment to him. But eh ... we are all getting use to the stuff ups.

Lets hope Saturday night is not one of them ... and we can turn it on.

Go BLUES!

_________________
I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:12 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
Oh ok. So just a nonsensical post.

_________________
dane's trolling again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:14 pm 
Offline
formerly Virgin Blue

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:40 am
Posts: 1628
I really liked what (I think it was) Mick's agent/manager said about Mick, that every club Mick has coached has culturally been in better shape once he finished up at that club, and that moreover Carlton are a work in progress.

Yes I know it can be perceived as being biased coming from his agent/manager, but what he says seems to make perfect sense to me (much like 99.99% of the things that have come out of Mick's mouth at pressers this year).

We have seen this 'cultural re-programming' if you like with the likes of Yarran, Robinson, and to a lesser extent arguably Gibbs, and hopefully in the future with Waite and Jeff

Look I'm not an experts exert, so I can't say for 100% certainty his game plan is going to deliver us gold, but one thing I am 99.99% sure of is he is sorting out the mess in terms of culture - individual players' attitudes, flawed recruitment etc. He's sorting our shit out and strike me we have a lot of shit at Carlton.

How many truly good mids do we have not inc those on the pension? It is about 2-3

How many players can be relied on to hit a target? About 3-4, maybe 5

Yeah it's all Mick's fault LOL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:14 pm 
Offline
Vale 1953-2020
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
dane wrote:
Oh ok. So just a nonsensical post.

What? As opposed to his other ... er ... nonsensical posts??

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:16 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
Sugarcane wrote:
Reactions to this post will enable clued-up people such as myself to determine which posters know anything about the game




Clued up people like you? :lol:
Full of yourself much?

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:17 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
BigBlueWave wrote:
dane wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
I just hope Laidler doesn't have a blinder this weekend ... could be a further embarrassment to the Super Duper coach.


How many blinders has he played for the swans?


Well he has played all year for the Swans (a team that Tricky Micky says has the deepest list) ...


Tell me, which players were omitted from the team that lost to GWS in RD 1?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:19 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
BigBlueWave wrote:
dane wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
I just hope Laidler doesn't have a blinder this weekend ... could be a further embarrassment to the Super Duper coach.


How many blinders has he played for the swans?


Well he has played all year for the Swans (a team that Tricky Micky says has the deepest list) ... and yet he was not versatile enough for the Super Duper coach?

I didn't say he has played a blinder nor did I say that I wanted him to play a blinder ... :smile:

I just said that if he did it would be further embarrassment to Dr Strangelove ... The fact is ...even playing the whole season for the swans is an embarrassment to him. But eh ... we are all getting use to the stuff ups.

Lets hope Saturday night is not one of them ... and we can turn it on.

Go BLUES!


Mick's planning will be shot when he see's Laidler line up in the backline. :grin:

_________________
I hope Essendon* folds.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:21 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
moshe25 wrote:
dane wrote:
Oh ok. So just a nonsensical post.

What? As opposed to his other ... er ... nonsensical posts??


:lol:

_________________
dane's trolling again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:55 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3996
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
Sugarcane wrote:
Am I happy the club are not going to play finals this year? NO

Am I happy we have had two poor seasons in a row (that said I am in the camp that believes *Ess didn’t deserve to play finals last year because their performances might have been assisted, which means we were a deserved finals team – which is corroborated by the fact we won our first final, and let’s not forget CFC under Malthouse actually improved their ladder position in 2013 vis a vis 2012)? NO

Do I think our slide down the ladder is Mick’s fault? NO

It is possible for good coaches to oversee teams slide down the ladder you know? Mick’s Coll went down the bottom then came back up and won a Flag. Remember, the coach isn’t the one who takes to the field and handballs and kicks and marks and runs and shoots for goal and defends. The players do this. I know that might come as a surprise to you but it is actually true.

The coach can try to implement a game plan (which btw looked alright against Haw, Geel, Coll lately), can try to lift confidence and belief, can delegate certain roles to assistant coaches, can work with the list manager (don’t think we have one FT at CFC which doesn’t help) and recruitment manager to shape the list over time etc, but at the end of the day he is not the one who has to go out there and make it happen.

If you have mediocre players or a list in transition a coach’s hands are pretty much tied. Which is what I think has happened to Carlton the last few years. I’d put it to you this is fact and pretty much undebatable for 2 reasons …

1. Our recruitment for a long time has been rubbish. This has been widely publicized both in here but also in the football media.
2. We have a midfield (note : the midfield in the modern caper is the most important part of a team, the engine room as they say) in transition. The established core, the guys who basically WERE the midfield for years (Judd, Scotland, Carrazzo, Mclean) are nearing the end or are already cooked (Simpson is the only veteran still going strong). Coupled with the fact we have not drafted quality midfielders to replace this decaying midfield core (the draft concessions to GWS/GC being contributing factors of course), and the fact the likes of Murphy (injury), Thomas (injury) and Gibbs (self belief??) have struggled for various reasons to emerge as true, bona fide midfield leaders, it is folly to suggest this midfield which is in transition isn’t a major factor contributing to our current predicament.

It probably doesn’t help Waite hasn’t become the player we hoped he would become, that Betts left (I believe the recruitment of Thomas cannot be judged until he has played his second year post his ankle reco), that Judd missed most of the year, that we had an apparently record high number of post season injuries. In fact the latter point on its own could be a reason for our 2014 performance.

Do you get it now?? Ageing/decaying midfield core, terrible drafting, record number of post season operations. And you blame the coach?? Sorry but I think you’re delusional. To me it’s a no brainer.

Have you ever heard the term a coach is only as good as the stock available to him? Sort of makes sense doesn’t it? Hard to make a good cake when you have bad ingredients.

What has Mick done then??

Well he has been a genius of sorts shifting Rowe to defence. He has it would appear helped Levi get fit and develop some inner belief. He has overseen a marked improvement in White. There alone he has basically found 3 KPPS many of us probably thought would never make the grade. He has turned Yarran into a very, very good player. He has overseen a marked improvement in Gibbs. He was instrumental in getting Everitt across, who right now would probably be in the top 5 in the B&F. He has backed our besieged captain to the hilt. He has thrown down the gauntlet to Jeff and Waite – hopefully he can turn them around like he has Yarran. He has managed to get very admirable efforts of late against some of the best sides going around, only lack of skill letting he and the club down. He has helped Robinson have his best year to date. He has basically seen the face of the 22 change by about 10 names in 12 months, a huge feat and evidence he is introducing new, mostly young blood into the team despite the ridiculous bellyaching of silly fans who seem incapable of seeing beyond Nick Graham.

About the only thing he hasn’t done well is he has overseen some poor efforts against lowly sides. But arguably that is an onfield leadership problem as much as a coaching problem. Therein lies another question for you – do you think CFC have one of the better leadership groups going around? Isn’t it well publicized the list is full of introverts? Mick is not a psychologist you know!

Maybe the other thing he is guilty of is over rating the list. But then it was he who coached Coll 2 years back when I think it was in R3 Carlton with a fit and firing Judd, Betts, Henderson, Scotland etc hammered his Coll to become premiership favourites overnight. Can’t blame him for thinking Carlton were pretty good at that point in time.

And therein lies the proof in the pudding that things can change quickly in 2 years.

But I am sure you’ll throw your blinkers on, stick your head in the sand and find ways to argue our performances are all Mick’s fault despite the fact he has a list in transition with a decaying midfield core, a list built by systematically terrible recruiting for years, a list inflicted by a record number of post season surgeries … oh and have I mentioned the fact in year one Mick was unable to shape the list because players were contracted and the cap was loaded meaning hardly any list changes were possible?



Exactly.


Last edited by Bluey44 on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:09 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
BigBlueWave wrote:
dane wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
I just hope Laidler doesn't have a blinder this weekend ... could be a further embarrassment to the Super Duper coach.


How many blinders has he played for the swans?


Well he has played all year for the Swans (a team that Tricky Micky says has the deepest list) ... and yet he was not versatile enough for the Super Duper coach?

I didn't say he has played a blinder nor did I say that I wanted him to play a blinder ... :smile:

I just said that if he did it would be further embarrassment to Dr Strangelove ... The fact is ...even playing the whole season for the swans is an embarrassment to him. But eh ... we are all getting use to the stuff ups.

Lets hope Saturday night is not one of them ... and we can turn it on.

Go BLUES!

Good.
But he wouldn't add anything to us
No pace....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:32 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
Synbad wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
dane wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
I just hope Laidler doesn't have a blinder this weekend ... could be a further embarrassment to the Super Duper coach.


How many blinders has he played for the swans?


Well he has played all year for the Swans (a team that Tricky Micky says has the deepest list) ... and yet he was not versatile enough for the Super Duper coach?

I didn't say he has played a blinder nor did I say that I wanted him to play a blinder ... :smile:

I just said that if he did it would be further embarrassment to Dr Strangelove ... The fact is ...even playing the whole season for the swans is an embarrassment to him. But eh ... we are all getting use to the stuff ups.

Lets hope Saturday night is not one of them ... and we can turn it on.

Go BLUES!

Good.
But he wouldn't add anything to us
No pace....

Another saviour,cannot do without him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:49 pm 
Offline
Serge Silvagni

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 915
Mick had every right to let Laidler go. He acted like a petulant brat, felt hard done by but didn't complain when he received his hefty pay check every week.

Basically the money we were paying Laidler we didn't get a good return for. When asked to develop his game, he had a sook.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:11 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
trublu wrote:
Mick had every right to let Laidler go. He acted like a petulant brat, felt hard done by but didn't complain when he received his hefty pay check every week.

Basically the money we were paying Laidler we didn't get a good return for. When asked to develop his game, he had a sook.

What would he have been on?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:42 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6425
AGRO wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Sugarcane wrote:
Am I happy the club are not going to play finals this year? NO

Am I happy we have had two poor seasons in a row (that said I am in the camp that believes *Ess didn’t deserve to play finals last year because their performances might have been assisted, which means we were a deserved finals team – which is corroborated by the fact we won our first final, and let’s not forget CFC under Malthouse actually improved their ladder position in 2013 vis a vis 2012)? NO

Do I think our slide down the ladder is Mick’s fault? NO

It is possible for good coaches to oversee teams slide down the ladder you know? Mick’s Coll went down the bottom then came back up and won a Flag. Remember, the coach isn’t the one who takes to the field and handballs and kicks and marks and runs and shoots for goal and defends. The players do this. I know that might come as a surprise to you but it is actually true.

The coach can try to implement a game plan (which btw looked alright against Haw, Geel, Coll lately), can try to lift confidence and belief, can delegate certain roles to assistant coaches, can work with the list manager (don’t think we have one FT at CFC which doesn’t help) and recruitment manager to shape the list over time etc, but at the end of the day he is not the one who has to go out there and make it happen.

If you have mediocre players or a list in transition a coach’s hands are pretty much tied. Which is what I think has happened to Carlton the last few years. I’d put it to you this is fact and pretty much undebatable for 2 reasons …

1. Our recruitment for a long time has been rubbish. This has been widely publicized both in here but also in the football media.
2. We have a midfield (note : the midfield in the modern caper is the most important part of a team, the engine room as they say) in transition. The established core, the guys who basically WERE the midfield for years (Judd, Scotland, Carrazzo, Mclean) are nearing the end or are already cooked (Simpson is the only veteran still going strong). Coupled with the fact we have not drafted quality midfielders to replace this decaying midfield core (the draft concessions to GWS/GC being contributing factors of course), and the fact the likes of Murphy (injury), Thomas (injury) and Gibbs (self belief??) have struggled for various reasons to emerge as true, bona fide midfield leaders, it is folly to suggest this midfield which is in transition isn’t a major factor contributing to our current predicament.

It probably doesn’t help Waite hasn’t become the player we hoped he would become, that Betts left (I believe the recruitment of Thomas cannot be judged until he has played his second year post his ankle reco), that Judd missed most of the year, that we had an apparently record high number of post season injuries. In fact the latter point on its own could be a reason for our 2014 performance.

Do you get it now?? Ageing/decaying midfield core, terrible drafting, record number of post season operations. And you blame the coach?? Sorry but I think you’re delusional. To me it’s a no brainer.

Have you ever heard the term a coach is only as good as the stock available to him? Sort of makes sense doesn’t it? Hard to make a good cake when you have bad ingredients.

What has Mick done then??

Well he has been a genius of sorts shifting Rowe to defence. He has it would appear helped Levi get fit and develop some inner belief. He has overseen a marked improvement in White. There alone he has basically found 3 KPPS many of us probably thought would never make the grade. He has turned Yarran into a very, very good player. He has overseen a marked improvement in Gibbs. He was instrumental in getting Everitt across, who right now would probably be in the top 5 in the B&F. He has backed our besieged captain to the hilt. He has thrown down the gauntlet to Jeff and Waite – hopefully he can turn them around like he has Yarran. He has managed to get very admirable efforts of late against some of the best sides going around, only lack of skill letting he and the club down. He has helped Robinson have his best year to date. He has basically seen the face of the 22 change by about 10 names in 12 months, a huge feat and evidence he is introducing new, mostly young blood into the team despite the ridiculous bellyaching of silly fans who seem incapable of seeing beyond Nick Graham.

About the only thing he hasn’t done well is he has overseen some poor efforts against lowly sides. But arguably that is an onfield leadership problem as much as a coaching problem. Therein lies another question for you – do you think CFC have one of the better leadership groups going around? Isn’t it well publicized the list is full of introverts? Mick is not a psychologist you know!

Maybe the other thing he is guilty of is over rating the list. But then it was he who coached Coll 2 years back when I think it was in R3 Carlton with a fit and firing Judd, Betts, Henderson, Scotland etc hammered his Coll to become premiership favourites overnight. Can’t blame him for thinking Carlton were pretty good at that point in time.

And therein lies the proof in the pudding that things can change quickly in 2 years.

But I am sure you’ll throw your blinkers on, stick your head in the sand and find ways to argue our performances are all Mick’s fault despite the fact he has a list in transition with a decaying midfield core, a list built by systematically terrible recruiting for years, a list inflicted by a record number of post season surgeries … oh and have I mentioned the fact in year one Mick was unable to shape the list because players were contracted and the cap was loaded meaning hardly any list changes were possible?

:clap: :clap: :clap: Your best post in 10 years, Blackers.



Don't know if it's your best post in 10 years, but I have to agree it's the best summary I have read on TC about the current state of our team.

Beautifully stated.

:clap:






I agree with someers of this but I also have some different views
I never rated Thomas as highly as others soft and can't kick 3 mill over 4 years is way overs

Getting a tried AFL failure in Wood was a massive mistake
Check out Baulderstone from Norwood. A far wiser choice as rookie ruck man

Don't like him surrounding himself with previous work colleagues
They may not be the best available
Finally and most importantly is his age and and time in the job
Everyone has a used bydate in every form of life
Have a look at Hinkleys impact at Port and it would save us over one million in salary

Keep MmM next year
I am over this club sacking coaches before their contract is up
But the side must improve in 2015 otherwise
C u later


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:50 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:11 pm
Posts: 3858
Location: Μάνη Ελλάδα
trublu wrote:
Mick had every right to let Laidler go. He acted like a petulant brat, felt hard done by but didn't complain when he received his hefty pay check every week.

Basically the money we were paying Laidler we didn't get a good return for. When asked to develop his game, he had a sook.



....if Ladiler's petulance and pay packet disturbed you, then you must have needed hospitalisation when Fev was playing for us...

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:21 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
sugarcane wrote:
What has Mick done then??

Well he has been a genius of sorts shifting Rowe to defence. He has it would appear helped Levi get fit and develop some inner belief. He has overseen a marked improvement in White. There alone he has basically found 3 KPPS many of us probably thought would never make the grade. He has turned Yarran into a very, very good player. He has overseen a marked improvement in Gibbs. He was instrumental in getting Everitt across, who right now would probably be in the top 5 in the B&F. He has backed our besieged captain to the hilt. He has thrown down the gauntlet to Jeff and Waite – hopefully he can turn them around like he has Yarran. He has managed to get very admirable efforts of late against some of the best sides going around, only lack of skill letting he and the club down. He has helped Robinson have his best year to date. He has basically seen the face of the 22 change by about 10 names in 12 months, a huge feat and evidence he is introducing new, mostly young blood into the team despite the ridiculous bellyaching of silly fans who seem incapable of seeing beyond Nick Graham.

About the only thing he hasn’t done well is he has overseen some poor efforts against lowly sides. But arguably that is an onfield leadership problem as much as a coaching problem. Therein lies another question for you – do you think CFC have one of the better leadership groups going around? Isn’t it well publicized the list is full of introverts? Mick is not a psychologist you know!

Maybe the other thing he is guilty of is over rating the list. But then it was he who coached Coll 2 years back when I think it was in R3 Carlton with a fit and firing Judd, Betts, Henderson, Scotland etc hammered his Coll to become premiership favourites overnight. Can’t blame him for thinking Carlton were pretty good at that point in time.


That's a pretty fair, good post, but you find it very hard to let Mick take responsibility for our worst season since 2007. I really dislike Mick so I find it hard to see much good about him. Rowe has been very good this year, but I am not sure that a coach that tries a key forward as a key back qualifies for genius status. There are not many defenders, particularly tall defenders, who didn't start as forwards. So good move but hardly genius. I think people have very short memories re White. He was a solid defender, similar to now, and before we hear about Mick moving him forward, that has happened a number of times. . White has had a shocking run of injuries over the last few years which have held him back and is now fit and playing like he did several seasons back. People have selective memory on Yarran too, he was very, very good in 2011 too. He has been very good and is close to our most talented player. Everitt has been good. Gibbs was average at the start of the season but has been in b&f form for most of the season. Again, selective memory for Robbo. Last year was his worst but he was very good in the years before that, bog in WCE final. Casboult has the tools and is improving. On the down side, Garlett has been horrible, Waite has been ordinary, Armfield is in career worst form, Warnock hasn't improved at all. Thomas is on huge money and has been very average

I find it incredible that Mick takes so little responsibility for us having our worst season since 2007, that we can't beat GWS, Melbourne, Brisbane. And the guy is on a fortune so he would want to be getting a few things right. If we could get any coach we wanted, would we take him? If we rated the coaches 1 to 18, would he be number one, 5, 10, 15? How far are we away from a flag? Is MM capable of staying the course for 5 years, 10 years. I hope to hell he's not. I wish we had not made the stupid appointment of Ratts and then follwoed by wastring so many draft picks, then we woudln't be having this discussion and we wouldn't be 10 years from a flag.

Mick is certainly the most savvy politician in the AFL coaching ranks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:21 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:06 pm
Posts: 3366
That's a fair question. Who would you pick first? I'd have mick in my top five, I reckon. Leppitsch? Scotts? Richardson? The guy who coaches the bulldogs? Buckley? The Richmond dude?

_________________
"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6401 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125 ... 321  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ByteDanceSpider, Google [Bot] and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group