Top 6. I won't say top 4 - even though we expected that in 2012 because people here we'll get precious. I'm willing for us to go backwards a little but top 6 is what I expect with a experienced coach and top draft picks on our list.

D Thomas.
S Pendlebury.

..in 2011, Judd's limited preseason wasnt due to doing his hammy.. ..he'd just won his charlie, and was fav to go back to back, dear old bruce was wishing upon a star for juddy to be triple brownlow medalist.. ..instead he was in outstanding MVP form, Murphy that year also won coaches award and was a charlie smokey, in fact in 2011 he and mitchell polled votes in the most games [12 from memory], and the gameplan built upon these two midfield stars worked that year cos both were in outstanding form.. ..but its not a gameplan to bank upon..

..yes we had other injuries, so neither was injury free as was your claim.. ..either way, as i said the heavily lopsided competition of 2011 allowed us to paper over the cracks, it was an over-achievement based more upon that year and it's lopsided nature.. ....it's why that season so far is the anomaly..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

backwards abit is like 12 or 13th....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

..bingo.. ..and because of their score via thomas the tank engine, afl changed the pp criteria on us the following year.. ..he'd manufactured that list from bottom of the ladder to grand-finalists in a couple of seasons.. ..dropped down briefly to pick up 2 stars,, and then back into finals and top 4 towards GF's and a flag.. ..even bottoming out he did well..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

"Manufactured" the list?
By manufactured, you mean he didnt play injured players and put them in for surgery.

So you're actually proving my point that the loss of personnel to injury adversely impacts a team significantly.
Thank you.
I'm glad you eventually got the point.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

they tanked

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Yes.
How did they facilitate the "tanking" Grro?

They put their injured stars in for surgery and played their lesser lights which adversely affected their performance and consequently, results.
I'm glad we're all finally on the same page.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

yeh sorry i havent followed the argument -

still cant get over the arrogant OP's first line.

whats your point?

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

At one point in 2012 we had 13 injured players including some top liners.

Hmmm ... but of course that had no effect on us.

Under the super duper coach we have expectations of finishing 12 and 13th without a whimper.

Such a wonderful experienced coach surely should get us to a prelim ...

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

At one point we were missing Carrazzo and we fell to pieces.. running around in circles what are we going to do now???



Ok so what did he do to create leadership in his five plus years at the helm???

120 odd games and no leadership????

Whats what you need to be looking at.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

..yes, manufactured.. ..list management, and tanking thrown in for good measure.. ..he had them finishing top 6 and above far more often than not.. ..to build a good list, you work it.. ..we haven't, with better opportunity..

..tanking isnt just resting better players.. ..it's rotations, match ups, all sorts of things, it's not the same thing once tanking reward enters the picture..

..in regards to loss of personel, we've had injuries to key players every year.. ..the difference this year is how we havent crumbled.. ..how new kids come in, and may not be good enough in every contest straight away, yet they look like they understand their role, as opposed to previous seasons when lesser lights would come in and have no idea.. ..our average scores for are up, and scores against are down..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Better list?

Not sure about that

But we have been much better this year than last already

What was Ratt's pass mark in his first full year?

So far every game we have given 100 percent and been very stiff to lose a couple of close ones

The crap we dished up last year every second game was comical

We will finish 6th to 8th and then who knows what will happen

Hmmm ... thank you.

Any excuse for the super duper coach.

I hope we do finish that high.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

We dont even have obvious leadership....

thats one of Rattens hugest fails...!!!

he couldnt create an environment of leadership
brought in judd and left him... and he isnt a natural leader

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

BV you have just shown how dismissive you are of the facts put forward.

Out of respect for your request for supportive evidence in this discussion and for respect of the efforts thus far from the team of 2013 I collated a fair bit of proof to support my argument. Totally.

Your response "I believe we were decimated by injury and that is an overwhelming contributing factor.
You don't. We'll have to agree to disagree." totally ignores any point I made...and you just conclude with agree to disagree....you what? Can't agree with anything I said. Sorry, but that type of grandeur borders on dellusional imo. Sorry to say that, but you're lacking anything close to balance, middle ground, probability let alone possibilty based on FACTS.

What I put forward were facts so we can get to the bottom of the argument...(an argument I just realised you are having with yourself)...its not what I believe...its FACTS I have presented. Most losses in 2012 were not affected because of injury, 2-3 players missing in a game is nort decimated by injury...and especially towards the end of the year when players could've played for the coach when we only had a couple missing to injury (and we've had more missing to injury this year which we've won mind you) and the players lost the game because the coach had lost the players: Saints? GC? How do you account for that BV? No, those losses did not happen because of injury. We had more missing in the Melbourne and Port game this year than we did in those 2 games.

I too have used the excuse of injury of 2012 but that's all part of the banter. Gotta have some excuse, and I'm not going to shy from it if the third party can't prove me wrong. The truth is that excuse of injury is usually the crutch for those who cant handle the truth. Hearts and minds, intestinal fortitude, game plan, preparation , development were all below par last year...they are real issues with all weak teams. We were weakened by the coach, his coaching staff and the recruiters who got us in the mess.

I know that some of our top 10 players did not dislike Ratts but he was not moving their hearts and minds...he had lost them in translation.

You have to accept the facts. I've never wanted to use the information against my team...but its the truth... so you can come off your high horse to disuss the situation in a more balanced and fair way. You are putting a lot of people off and off side with your attitude towards them. I'm trying to ignore your ignorance and remember BV for his footy knowledge.

You are imbalanced with your viewpoint on the coaches in this and other threads. You are blinded by your hatred of MM and posters presenting facts for their position in favour of MM. Yeah you might understand games plans, and I respect that, but no better than me and many others who are well versed in the modern game. Did you speak with any of the players regarding issues with the 2012 coach? Sticks didn't sack his mate for nothing. You have to accept that.

This is not about points scoring BV, just intelligent conversation. The discussion with you are having has eroded into something...that's your problem big buddy....and not going to be mine.

Don't worry about including me in response to me and my effort to bring facts to the forefront of your emotional war, in your quest for the truth, quest for glory, the game of one upmanship, assault on the MM fans, whatever it is you're doing because I'm not interested in a war of words which is plain old dismissive of any facts, good argument and disrespectful of opinion and effort.

I'm outa here.

Lets get back to football and the imrpovement needed for this club. Ratts is gone. MM is not going anywhere. What does he need to do to improve this list? That's what we want to discuss.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

bananas it is.