A few points on the topic...

1. If this was Scotland (completely hypothetical) and not Fevola, would he be gone? Would posters on here be more unanimous in getting rid of him? If the answer is yes, then we have one rule for one, one rule for another, and the Club is in a lot of trouble. No better way to piss people off than to have different rules for different players. How will Betts / Cloke / Garlett feel if Fevola gets a 'lighter' punishment than they did?

2. Interesting that I can recall a very long thread before Fevola signed his last contract. The discussion then was whether to trade Fevola while he had currency, or keep him and hope he helped win a flag. Those arguing for a trade were worried that he would stuff up again in a major way, and be disruptive to the fabric of the Club and the playing group, hurting our chances of winning a flag...by which time he would have no trade currency. How ironic now that we are having a 50 page discussion on whether he should be traded, having stuffed up again, what is his behaviour doing to the fabric of the Club and the playing group...and that MAYBE what is stopping the Club from taking strong action is his lack of trade currency.

The problem with being a Fevola apologist is that every year, you have to be a Fevola apologist. And every year we are having this discussion. And every time we have this discussion, it is because Fevola has done something to warrant the discussion. And all these discussions and Fevola actions are hurting the Club, even if it is him only going out and getting lashed and being a d1ckhead, and p1ssing on windows (and it may only be that, but it may very well be more). I know I keep referring to it, but it creates a poor culture at the Club, the lack of meaningful response from the Club shows (IMHO) poor leadership, and clubs with poor culture and poor leadership do not win Premierships.

3. Brayshaw and Lyon on TFS emphasised a number of times that they only showed the vision that they could, that they edited out much more vision because it was not suitable to be shown.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

And for those arguing that we can't move him on because we will be left with a pathetic forwardline:

1. These kinds of decisions, if you are creating a strong club culture, must look beyond that. Collingwood did it with Didak and Shaw. It cost them in a finals series, but they benefited this year, no doubt.

2. Think back to St Kilda and Rob Harvey. He was arguably their best midfielder last year, and retired. Look at how much better St Kilda's midfield was this year. Not saying that Harvey was a culprit, but that when one door closes, another opens. And sometimes the new door is a better door, even if you could never imagine it.

Along the same lines, the Melbourne Tigers lost A Gaze, Copeland and Bradke, and L Gaze as coach, all at the end of one season. The whole basketball world expected them to struggle the next year. Instead they came out, dominated, and won the title.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

It's obvious there is going to be a bunch of very disappointed Carlton supporters soon, no matter what happens.

I tend to think those supporting Fevola will get over it a lot quicker if things don't go their way than vice versa. Those not supporting Fevola will have months, if not years to stew about it.

Hellas, I dig your posts and your passion, and like you I would love to see Fev turn it around and be ratained, only to see him and the Blues bigger and better in 2010. I reckon it can happen, and probably will.

I am from the side which suggests nothing too serious happened on Brownlow night. That's what yobbos do and footy at all levels has them...there's heaps of them. Furthermore, he's a marked man...an easy target. However, there seems many who were offended and imo the fact that he's gone into hiding and openly admitted that what he saw on film of himself was embarrassing and so on....says it all.

I want him rehabilitated and suspended.

BUT

If he's gone, we are not screwed!!! Get a grip. Pie in the sky emotive stuff there Hellas.

For all we know, we will be a better team, due to better balance. May be not. But we aren't screwed for our tilt for the Flag.

I remember the night in 2002 when SOS, Bradles and Kouta pulled at at the last minute against the Bombers when we were at the bottom of the barrel.
I remember what we did without Judd last year.
I remember what we did without Fev a few times. I thought we looked really good without Fev. Remember what we did when we played Fev as a foil against Collingwood this year...we looked allright as a multi pronged attack. Isn't that what we aspire to?

One chapter closes and another opens. Life goes on. There's a list of kids with big aspirations, and there's a bigger club with even bigger aspirations.

Waite ....give him some credit...he's a damn good forward and can kick a bag. His forward play is not the problem. The problem we have with him is that we wish we had 2 or 3 of him.

Kreuzer...give him some credit...he's played cameos forward and shown a lot more than you give him credit for. Play him on the FF line and watch Kreuzer's version of the Tippett show.

Setanta can run hard and fast and provide a good link if needed. Not great, but can do a job for us as a mobile tall.

The window with Fev is 2-3 years. The window for Judd is up to 6 years. The window for the club is the next decade; it's not just about Fev.

We have a damn good list. We have kids who will get another preseason under their belt Yarran Garlett Robinson. Bettsy goes allright. Thornton can play forward, Houla goes allright, Walker, Austin....we have options and may also become multipronged; nothing wrong with that.

Add grunt in the midfield (Brock) and Warnock, and we have a midfield that will deliver the ball more than 2009 and kick more goals too.

Come on. The sky is not falling. It's not over for CFC's 17th flag in the next few years. We have a very good list with or without Fev.

No doubt having Fev will help in the next 2-3 years; but that's Fev's window, not Carltons. We will be even better when Fev retires as the kids mature.

Don't you believe in the list we have put together...you know the Baby Blues, 20 yo's...plenty of them.

If Fev stays, Fev has got to change for the betterment of the team. Don't you agree?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Depends if he has a contract and if so whether they can afford to pay it out, or at worst come to some agreement. A contract is a contract. Fev has a biggie that's got another 2 yrs. Would people donate to a payout given it would burst our Cap? The thing is too the premiership window is opening and you do have to make smart business decisions. What if we did get rid of him then missed a GF like the Bulldogs because we had no big bloke to kick goals. Those wanting Fev out now would change their tune very quickly and the joint would go into meltdown especially after waiting years sitting on the bottom. Last thing people want is to be set back another few years now. Sometimes ability and worth will decide in regards to a decision in any business. Fact of life. That doesn't mean he won't cop a suspension and be forced to go train with the Ants for a while.

Bondi I dig your posts as well but.....

Waite is not the type of body or personality that would handle a tight defender jostling him around and giving him a hard time.

Kreuzer was played up forward against the Pies this year (2nd time) and was awful.

When fev played as a decoy doesn't count as he was in the side as a decoy.

I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think Judd will be anywhere near his best at the age of 30.

Our window is with Fevola in the next 3 years and nothing will convince me otherwise unless we can swap fevola for another gun forward. And believe me, I am not the glass half empty type.

I just think Swann has backed himself into a corner with his last chance comments and had [REDACTED] up in a big way considering fevola is our big chance. like i said, they chose the Fev/Judd road and now they stick to it or set our club back another 4-5 years.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

Ratts can start working abit harder for his money.
We need a gameplan going forward.

Nah the "cock up" is again from Fev.

Fev cant do what he likes over and over again with impunity....!!!.. what the @#$%&! do you think this is?

And the board and Swann wont just jeapordise the club because they dont like Fev.

Fev wouldnt be a loved teammate right now.

What he went out and did last monday was a disgrace!!!

It isnt the first time either....

How many chances do you give a guy like Fev?

When is enough , enough?

What are the standards that a footy club or any oprganisation has?

Fev will probably end up staying.... but he is a flower...!!!... and the only thing that might save him is his contract..... not his football!!!

He shitten on everything that is navy blue... he shitted on the sport.. and he shitten on his mates.. his colleagues and most of all he shitted on his family..

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

If you take Fev out of the forwardline we are screwed.

Waite has never proven himself as a FF and would struggle with the physical attention the number one forward cops.

Kreuzer still has a long long way to go before he can be considered a decent forward.

Cloke and Setanta are second rate.

We are giving a premiership to the Bulldogs and shutting our window at the same time. Absolutely mind boggling. What was the point of getting Judd now? We won't be winning anything for another 5-6 years If (and that's a big IF) we do. We should have kept Kennedy and picks 3 and 18 but we chose to go down the Fev road and we now have to stick to it. If we don't it's just another massive cock-up and one that can be partly attributed to everyone's beloved untouchable Greg Swann.[/quote]

Hellas, I dig your posts and your passion, and like you I would love to see Fev turn it around and be ratained, only to see him and the Blues bigger and better in 2010. I reckon it can happen, and probably will.

I am from the side which suggests nothing too serious happened on Brownlow night. That's what yobbos do and footy at all levels has them...there's heaps of them. Furthermore, he's a marked man...an easy target. However, there seems many who were offended and imo the fact that he's gone into hiding and openly admitted that what he saw on film of himself was embarrassing and so on....says it all.

I want him rehabilitated and suspended.

BUT

If he's gone, we are not screwed!!! Get a grip. Pie in the sky emotive stuff there Hellas.

For all we know, we will be a better team, due to better balance. May be not. But we aren't screwed for our tilt for the Flag.

I remember the night in 2002 when SOS, Bradles and Kouta pulled at at the last minute against the Bombers when we were at the bottom of the barrel.
I remember what we did without Judd last year.
I remember what we did without Fev a few times. I thought we looked really good without Fev. Remember what we did when we played Fev as a foil against Collingwood this year...we looked allright as a multi pronged attack. Isn't that what we aspire to?

One chapter closes and another opens. Life goes on. There's a list of kids with big aspirations, and there's a bigger club with even bigger aspirations.

Waite ....give him some credit...he's a damn good forward and can kick a bag. His forward play is not the problem. The problem we have with him is that we wish we had 2 or 3 of him.

Kreuzer...give him some credit...he's played cameos forward and shown a lot more than you give him credit for. Play him on the FF line and watch Kreuzer's version of the Tippett show.

Setanta can run hard and fast and provide a good link if needed. Not great, but can do a job for us as a mobile tall.

The window with Fev is 2-3 years. The window for Judd is up to 6 years. The window for the club is the next decade; it's not just about Fev.

We have a damn good list. We have kids who will get another preseason under their belt Yarran Garlett Robinson. Bettsy goes allright. Thornton can play forward, Houla goes allright, Walker, Austin....we have options and may also become multipronged; nothing wrong with that.

Add grunt in the midfield (Brock) and Warnock, and we have a midfield that will deliver the ball more than 2009 and kick more goals too.

Come on. The sky is not falling. It's not over for CFC's 17th flag in the next few years. We have a very good list with or without Fev.

No doubt having Fev will help in the next 2-3 years; but that's Fev's window, not Carltons. We will be even better when Fev retires as the kids mature.

Don't you believe in the list we have put together...you know the Baby Blues, 20 yo's...plenty of them.

If Fev stays, Fev has got to change for the betterment of the team. Don't you agree?[/quote]I think you're rationalising there. Those blokes will suddenly cop opponents rather than all of them just going to Fev. As the Bulldogs found out, a lack of a decent KP forward cost premierships.

Tell that to the Bulldogs.

are you upset because he mentioned you on triplem a while back?

What you say is true Jim. And while I have advocated for many years that we should have traded Fevola when we had the chance (and now again, if the machinations can be sorted out), my argument now is more about the Club showing leadership, and treating Fevola as they would treat any other player. Whether that means trading him, suspending him, or something else, I'm not sure. But DO SOMETHING. If the Betts et al indescretion was worth 1 week, (and Jason Gram missing a physio session was worth 1 week (and Gram went on to be his club's best player in a GF, and a bee's d1ck from being a Norm Smith Medallist), then if the Club chooses not to trade Fevola, then he should be suspended, not for a week, not for 4. Probably, 6 or 8. It needs to hurt him so badly that he will NEVER do it again. Plus support, counselling etc. But players MUST be made to be held responsible for their actions.

_________________
Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

May i ask you also while were here.... do you believe its all "rumours" like you suggested the other day???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The contract will tie the Club's hands anyway. Suspension and rehab will probably be it.

Can that start at round 4 after Judd comes back??? lol!

Whilst not disputing your arguments (I am happy to leave it to the club to make the right decision), I will have some issue with your examples:

1. Collingwood's decision was not strong. If they were strong, they would have sacked both (or at least Didak). Instead they made a scapegoat of Rhyce Shaw, believing him to be the weakest link in the trio. They were never going to win the flag last year and they knew it. Didak's history is worse than Fev's.

2. Basketball is different, not detracting from the Tiger's effort (I support them), but a team can be torn apart and rebuilt in an off-season. You only need two or three guns to build a side around, with the rest being role players. Hard to make footy comparisons on that basis.

I agree that the club has to make a stance, and will content myself that it will. I, like 99% of posters, don't know the whole story and therefore can't really make an informed opinion on it.

what was a disgrace? what was on the footy show telecast? hardly a disgrace! fev is a victim of a media character assassination. fev sells papers! Hurley (who beat up a taxi driver which is far worse) does not! So Fev has to put up with unwarranted sh** from posters like you while Hurley gets off lightly.

yeah thats it...!!!



Fev hasnt been happy with me for 3 years......

Because im "too negative"

So suddenly im upset with Fev...

Talking about a straw clutcher...

You probably wouldnt have a clue about what went down....

and as i keep saying....its just not his first @#$%&! up... but its easily his biggest!!!

I wonder what 'field' you work in ... without standards...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

exactly right, 110kg full forwards that kick 90 goals a year dont come around too often, and some people wanna discard him on rumours and innuendo. when are all these juicy rumours gonna surface as fact? maybe there all B.S?

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"Then joked and said he (Jack himself) probably wouldn't even need to play until round 2 against Collingwood."

2 things. 1. I agree with Synbad.

2. This whole thing is becoming tedious. Very much like Braindead Fevola.

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The problem with Socialism is, you eventually run out of other people's money.

I believe you know very little and are guessing at everything like you always do. So if you're referring to me questioning your credibility then nothing has changed. Speak enough shit and you'll get something right eventually. Nothing personal levendi but you never have anything good to say about our club and the minute something's not quite right you're here putting down players (JR, Fev), coaches (Ratts) and pretty much any positive poster you can take aim at. That's where I see you at. So i hope that answers your "cryptic" question.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!