That's not a picture of the execrable Andrew Bolt that is your avatar is it blue chucky? Couldn't you use an image of a reasonable person like P W Botha or Bill O'Reilly (The US Fox caster not the leggie)

Tell me why ... ?

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

This year yes. But Walker, Simpson and Hendo played close to if not career best footy last year under Mick. This year Hendo is injured and doesn't train during the week. Walker hobbles around barely able to walk during the week . And Simmo has dropped off the last couple of weeks but was in great form earlier this year.
Waite is old.
Tuohy played career best footy last year under mick and is playing with a dodgey knee. Have a look next time we play just how strapped up it is.

Armfield, Lucas, Watson - playing no different to what they did under Ratten. They're just not good.


Cachia played good footy last year under mick. Ratten delisted him.

Jeffy has his own issues.

I'm my (probably) 10 years on Carlton forums I've only ever had two avatars.... Bolta and the cover of Grace Under Pressure.

Probably due for a change...

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The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

Rupert ?

7 players Under 23. That's almost a third of their team which is a substantial amount.
As I said in my post, this wasn't a Malthouse V Richardson exercise but as you've made it one, IMHO you're kidding yourself if you think Mick would play as many kids. He dropped Buckley after he played a more than serviceable game so I'm yet to see the willingness.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

( this wasn't a Malthouse V Richardson exercise but as you've made it one)were in my comment have i made it one, just pointing out that the 12 players under 50 games does not equate to all of them being kids, that is all.

Yes there is! it's right alongside the X in lackadaisical.....

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

it's garlett with an l
not garTlett with a T
cos garTlett with a T
spells harTley.
sue HarTley.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Fair point.
The fact he's giving all their players a go is the ideal route for them IMHO. They have an extremely unbalanced list and they need to see who to keep and who to delist.
One of the earlier posts was having a go at Richardson. Personally, I think he's doing exactly what they require.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Actually plenty of players improved under Ratten - you dont go from last to 5th otherwise. As for improvements in 2012? - of course that is going to be limited when close to half your list spends 8 or more weeks on the sidelines with various injuries...

As for your list of players that have improved under Mick
Rowe - bit of a long bow to draw as no one knows how well he could have played had he not been diagnosed with testicular cancer early in 2012. Hard to put any runs on the board when you are getting treatment. Who is to say that he couldnt have been a very strong contributor a lot earlier had he not been ill?
Casboult - was always going to improve. Has looked good each year that he has been at the club (particularly in ant's finals games). Were it not for an untimely injury, would have debuted in 2011 (was elevated from rookie list), would have played a lot earlier in 2012 had he not been injured earlier in the season. Should have been given a lot more opportunity by malthouse in 2013 - Had kreuzer not been injured, would casboult have been given this extended run in the seniors under mick? I think not
Yarran - has been good for the past 3 years and is within the age profile where you would be expecting a lot of natural improvement (21-23yp, 50-70games)
Murphy - umm... not really. Has been a very good player for a long time. Not so good in 2013 under mick (no preseason), but compared to his previous 5-6 yrs hasnt really improved. Tackles more but doesnt hit the scoreboard as much. 2014 is more about murphy improving compared to 2013, not when compared to his career.
Gibbs - again a very good player for a very long time. Looks better as he is given more responsibility in the midfield under mick. Was supposed to happen in 2012 but never really eventuated as the backline was decimated by injuries that year. More consistent? Perhaps, though I've never seen gibbs as having an issue in that area. Throughout his career, has done the job 9/10 regardless of where he has been played.
Warnock? - lol. Has consistently been about the same level since 2011. Gets taps, does virtually nothing around the ground. Is he getting more of the ball? nope. Taking more marks? nope. Sticking more tackles? nope. Kicking more goals? nope. Having more taps go to advantage? nope.

Everitt & docherty have been great inclusions through the trade period - but thats it. One was a 1st rd draftee returning home 2 yrs into his career, the other an established player in a top4 side that got squeezed out due to salary cap. They aren't any greater as development stories than say, henderson was under ratten.

When looking at coaching performances - look beyond whether an individual player has gone up or down.
Who is to say that watson/lucas/mitchell/mccarthy etc wouldnt have developed into players if given the opportunity and development under a different coach? For a variety of reasons, that will happen each and every year under all coaches.

What we should look for, is a consistency of message, game plan and improvement in the team etc

18mths in, most people struggle to see a consistent pattern of play. We dont appear to have been able to implement a game plan that has delivered consistent results. Our contested ball ability and defence has gone backwards.

I've no issue with having not matched the crows offer for Betts. Where I do have an issue is the picking up of thomas.

IF it was clear to mick that we needed to redevelop the list, then why would you pay 4 X 650-700k for a 25 yo with an extensive injury history over the previous 2 seasons/serious question marks about being able to get back to his best? You wouldn't - a much better strategy would have been to bank the early draft pick AND then headhunt a much younger player (without the injury concerns) the following year.

The ONLY reason why you'd take the risk on thomas would be if you genuinely think that the team is close and only needs a a few more players to round the team off ( I sit in this camp). If that is the case, then clearly mick's coaching has been inadequate this year

On thomas - If he has been picked up during the 2012/13 off season, then the above would be a non-issue as you could say that mick had thought the list he inherited was better than what current results dictate. Mick did have the entire 2013 season to assess the list and then make an assessment as to whether or not we are reasonably close/in need of a rebuild. The high risk pick up of thomas would suggest that he thought we had the capacity to challenge top 4/be significantly better than what we've shown this year.

Apparently, the t is silen in his name

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

[size=100]Mick must play Garle, FFS!

4th Chool you're taking the piss right?

Rowe wasn't looking too good as a player before being diagnosed and in any event the genius with the Rowe move was plonking him in defense

Cas has made incremental improvement at best in prior years and this year has made significant improvement

White was going nowhere fast. Like Rowe he showed little before injuries struck.

Yarran has become a player I started to think he'd never become

I'm sure Ratts had some successes too from a man management perspective but credit where it's due MM has pulled off some seriously impressive man management feats this year with players nobody expected would make it

Our drafting has been atrocious for years and MM only has the rabble in front of him to work with and he's done some great things with what we perceived as being limited talent

It's clear now Waite n Jeff are MMs next projects . If he can get Jeff to harden up fair dinkum MM deserves a bloody medal

The one Qn mark is DT but given he is returning from a reco I think he deserves a second year to be judged . I don't mind getting a 26 year old mid/HFF type (more HFF) bec with Scotland, McLean, Carrots and Judd nearing the end we need more experience

Mitch Robinson is another success story

He will never be elite bec his lack of skill and poise prohibits that happening but Mick has Robbo playing to his strengths and should be applauded for this

Very insightful presser from Mick today. Not surprised it hasn't received any headlines or attention - given it's positive.

Good post Em, go back to the pre season, when Hendo, Tuohy, Walker missed all the pre season games , and a lot of the training . You always know when Walker is not right by his kicking .

Sugarcane,
On Rowe - VFL and training reports at the time indicated that he made some of our defenders look silly at times but probably needed a year to build match fitness. It is worth noting that Rowe injured his AC in Jan 2012 (i.e. reported to be a month recovery), made his NAB cup debut for the club in early March (2nd rd NAB cup, 1/2 game format) and had mysteriously disappeared from matches/the club in mid april (serniors/reserves). It was subsequently announced that he had testicular cancer in early may. Hard to impress in just 3-4 matches don't you think? What more would you have expected?

As for positional move to the back line. It isn't that inspirational - most talls are thrown around these days - rowe (ruck, fwd, def), henderson (def, fwd), waite (def,fwd), casboult (fwd, ruck) etc. Rowe wasn't impressing in the ruck and would have been behind henderson/kreuzer/waite as forwards. Not surprising he was thrown back actually.

casboult -
2010 - yr 1. Worked hard, lost a HUGE amount of weight, showed lots in the 2nds (including finals games)
2011 - yr 2. Elevated to senior list in in march (ie showed enough promise), but then got injured shortly after (april) and was put onto the long term injury list with a PCL. Came back late in the season to again do well in the 2nds (again including finals)
2012 - yr 3. Missed most of the season with another PCL, played about 6 quarters of football post layoff (VFL development + VFL game) before being required to play 1st ruck. Did reasonably well and showed plenty of promise in his first 6 games (aside from horrible 0.5 against GC)
2013 - yr 4. Elevated to senior list under a new coach under a completely new game plan. Managed to get some games but was never shown a lot of faith (played rds 1-2. 10-15, 21-SF). Showed glimpses but considered to behind kreuzer/hampson/warnock and never really got an extended run to build confidence
2014 - yr 5. Again, rated behind warnock/kreuzer. Got his opportunity due to kreuzer being ruled out for the season and has started to develop a bit more consistency as he has gained confidence.

I put to you that casboult's development in his first 3 years was limited by virtue of having two extended PCL layoffs - dominating VFL finals matches in first 2 seasons, did well in the 6 game stretch in 2012. What more could casboult have done under ratten? - If anything, given how much casboult relies on confidence - mick impeded casboults development last year by having him in and out of the team (i.e. dropped after just 2 matches). Even this season, casboult was unlikely to play a lot of games as he was considered behind kreuzer/waite/henderson at the start of the year. Had kreuzer not been injured, would casboult really be getting this stretch of games in the 22? - I think not.

white - we have differing opinions there. I've always had white in my 22 - more importantly the previous coach always had him in the team when fit (suggests that there is something there to work with). Again, don't overlook the importance of having continuity in a player's development.

Similarly yarran - I haven't had too much issue with his development (under either coach) - he went back under ratten, did reasonably well despite his limited experience. His continued development could have occurred under another coach - just through improved fitness, greater maturity, greater confidence, more experience defending etc

Garlett - The softness is due to a lack of confidence. Whilst not the hardest player, he has been adequate previously. Personally I wouldnt have dropped him.

DT - it comes down to where we consider out list to be.

I don't have an issue with taking the risk of DT requiring 2 years to MAYBE get optimal fitness/previous performances IF we think we are close enough. But if that is the case, then clearly MM hasn't been able to get the best out of his personnel/team - we are 14th, unlikely to make the 8 this year and haven't shown any indication that we are top 4 next year.

IF we needed a min 3 year rebuild at the end of last year, then I question the wisdom of spending 4 X 700k for what will effectively be a 29/30 yo when we are ready to contend. Particularly given that he also cost us the betts compensation pick.

So which camp do you belong in? - at the start of the year did you think we were close? (i.e. DT was a reasonable pick up) - or perhaps you think we needed to rebuild? - and if it is the latter, how long do you expect it to take before we are top 4?

Mick telling everyone today keep me employed I need years to build this team .I know I come here to take this list to the next level buy keep paying me a million a year and I will build a list.
Just look at the swans
Does anyone fall for this shit

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

You obviously haven't been following TC posters closely.