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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:26 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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bluedog wrote:
Wojee wrote:
billc3 wrote:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-calls-for-a-tighter-interpretation-of-the-holding-the-ball-rule/news-story/3c6c68a7c68a27331fb8ec683d3bac28#ampshare=https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-calls-for-a-tighter-interpretation-of-the-holding-the-ball-rule/news-story/3c6c68a7c68a27331fb8ec683d3bac28

Interesting call....
I see this as a huge tactic against us... Grab the ball and break tackles when the ball is in dispute... Generally there is no penalty for doing it.
(how many holding the ball decisions did we get for us last night...?)

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I'd like the ball being "knocked loose" to result in a HTB free as well.


That sounds like a pretty good idea.


How can knocked loose mean holding the ball?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Very few are calling for Bolts head
Agree we should be patient and still in rebuild
However the last 2 weeks have been really poor and unacceptable and supporters shouldn't be happy with those performances irrespective of a rebuild or not
Skill level terrible and playing 2 very ordinary sides

I'm generally positive but last 2 weeks have tested patience -

Agree that curnow fisher Dow Marchbank Garlett excite after 3 rounds

Kennedy and SPS and weitering all I reckon will be good

Below level performances from a few after 3 rounds lamb silvagni (although I have high hopes for ) plot who was very good last year
Jones

Agree midfield very young and be good when we include Lang for another more mature body


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Chitty's Finger wrote:
bluedog wrote:
Wojee wrote:
billc3 wrote:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-calls-for-a-tighter-interpretation-of-the-holding-the-ball-rule/news-story/3c6c68a7c68a27331fb8ec683d3bac28#ampshare=https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-calls-for-a-tighter-interpretation-of-the-holding-the-ball-rule/news-story/3c6c68a7c68a27331fb8ec683d3bac28

Interesting call....
I see this as a huge tactic against us... Grab the ball and break tackles when the ball is in dispute... Generally there is no penalty for doing it.
(how many holding the ball decisions did we get for us last night...?)

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


I'd like the ball being "knocked loose" to result in a HTB free as well.


That sounds like a pretty good idea.


How can knocked loose mean holding the ball?


Call it “incorrect disposal” if you like then.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:32 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Chitty's Finger wrote:
bluedog wrote:
Wojee wrote:
billc3 wrote:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-calls-for-a-tighter-interpretation-of-the-holding-the-ball-rule/news-story/3c6c68a7c68a27331fb8ec683d3bac28#ampshare=https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-calls-for-a-tighter-interpretation-of-the-holding-the-ball-rule/news-story/3c6c68a7c68a27331fb8ec683d3bac28

Interesting call....
I see this as a huge tactic against us... Grab the ball and break tackles when the ball is in dispute... Generally there is no penalty for doing it.
(how many holding the ball decisions did we get for us last night...?)

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


I'd like the ball being "knocked loose" to result in a HTB free as well.


That sounds like a pretty good idea.


How can knocked loose mean holding the ball?


You had time to dispose correctly, but you didn’t.

Consider the player running into open goal, the desperate defender chases him down, tackles and the ball spills loose only for a second player to pick it up and kick and easy goal while the defender who just made the great take lies on the ground watching. I hate seeing this, we should reward the tackler.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
The Duke wrote:
IMO, Bolts should be given 3 weeks to produce 2 wins. If not, part ways.

This is a business where winning is success, and prolonged failure is not tolerated. Our financials & signing talent depends on wins on the board and memberships in the bank. Only 1 of 3 means we're probably headed for another spoon. That can't be tolerated anymore.

We'll lose players like Cripps, Charlie and Fisher, but we also won't be able to bring in players like Buddy, Dangerfield, Mitchell etc.

Right now - we stink from top to bottom.



FMD, The club has finally shown the guts to strip back the list and rebuild properly and the supporters are getting weak at the knees.
2 wins out of the next 3 or part ways? :grin:
The club has set a course which they openly told the supporters about. Did you complain about it when they initially decided to rebuild or were you in favour of it?

If you were in favour, at least extend them the courtesy of seeing it through. The hysteria over 3 losses is ridiculous.
You are assuming that rebuild.
Code for sacking and trading out players is the only way forward and the only way to success.
I am not convinced that bottoming out for draft picks is the best way to build a football team.
It might produce or provide the team with the odd exceptional player but that more often than not does not transition into an exceptional team.
If the clubs has got this wrong and the early signs are they have this will be a long long time in the bottom half of the ladder

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Chitty's Finger wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We also had 16 CFC listed players get hammered by 21 goals as they 'develop' in the 2s.
How many of those 16 are mids? All talls and defenders. List imbalance is a key issue in the seconds I think. Too tall, too slow.... no emerging mids.

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Absolutely. For years some people on this site and that disgrace of a place called Bigfooty have been screaming/pleading ad nauseam for the club to get mids. But no; we were told we didn't know what we were talking about and that the club knew what they were doing, trust the club blah,blah,blah. They were far too reactive, Now Kerridge and Graham are our mid depth smfh. Meanwhile we got rid of Holman, and I don't care what his problems were at least he could tackle and was a mid. Love to know how bringing in Mullet, O'Shea, Shaw, Palmer, Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips, Lobbe etc, was ever going to help our rebuild. We never actually fully committed to the rebuild early and we are paying the price now.
Because idiots in the industry go on about "Look what happened to Melbourne" it perpetuates and becomes the template so you have to recruit a slew of recycled journeyman to "help and protect" the kids, fmd. It's appears all a bit haphazard.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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Posts: 587
Serious question -
eagles look to have spirit, game plan and talent.
Lions look to have spirit talent and a game plan
Gold Coast spanked us

How is it other teams have instant improvement and yet we just seem to be stagnant, without direction and lost.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Jonosc wrote:
Serious question -
eagles look to have spirit, game plan and talent.
Lions look to have spirit talent and a game plan
Gold Coast spanked us

How is it other teams have instant improvement and yet we just seem to be stagnant, without direction and lost.


It's a good question - meanwhile, the scum was decimated by suspension and sanctions, yet they're in a far superior position to us right now.

Worsfold has taken a basket case to one playing finals in year 1.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:54 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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The Duke wrote:
IMO, Bolts should be given 3 weeks to produce 2 wins. If not, part ways.

This is a business where winning is success, and prolonged failure is not tolerated. Our financials & signing talent depends on wins on the board and memberships in the bank. Only 1 of 3 means we're probably headed for another spoon. That can't be tolerated anymore.

We'll lose players like Cripps, Charlie and Fisher, but we also won't be able to bring in players like Buddy, Dangerfield, Mitchell etc.

Right now - we stink from top to bottom.


Our business plan is 66 games of rebuild, then we start focusing on if Bolton is the right coach as we add free agents to the kids.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Jonosc wrote:
Serious question -
eagles look to have spirit, game plan and talent.
Lions look to have spirit talent and a game plan
Gold Coast spanked us

How is it other teams have instant improvement and yet we just seem to be stagnant, without direction and lost.

Probably the same reason why nearly every player that leaves us for another club instantly seem to become better.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Normal One wrote:
The Duke wrote:
IMO, Bolts should be given 3 weeks to produce 2 wins. If not, part ways.

This is a business where winning is success, and prolonged failure is not tolerated. Our financials & signing talent depends on wins on the board and memberships in the bank. Only 1 of 3 means we're probably headed for another spoon. That can't be tolerated anymore.

We'll lose players like Cripps, Charlie and Fisher, but we also won't be able to bring in players like Buddy, Dangerfield, Mitchell etc.

Right now - we stink from top to bottom.


Our business plan is 66 games of rebuild, then we start focusing on if Bolton is the right coach as we add free agents to the kids.


I get the 66 games bit, just not 66 losses.

A re-build doesn't mean insipid, pathetic performances like the last 2 weeks. Just 1 win in 12 games isn't flash for St Kilda circa 1982 so another 2 or 3 for us over the next 3 weeks is a disaster IMO.

There is still something wrong with our group mentally that this can happen 2 weeks running - Collingwood aren't that good.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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No doubt there's a losing mentality. Just look at results with mens, womens and NB teams.

Onfield leadership is the issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:48 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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The Duke wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
The Duke wrote:
IMO, Bolts should be given 3 weeks to produce 2 wins. If not, part ways.

This is a business where winning is success, and prolonged failure is not tolerated. Our financials & signing talent depends on wins on the board and memberships in the bank. Only 1 of 3 means we're probably headed for another spoon. That can't be tolerated anymore.

We'll lose players like Cripps, Charlie and Fisher, but we also won't be able to bring in players like Buddy, Dangerfield, Mitchell etc.

Right now - we stink from top to bottom.


Our business plan is 66 games of rebuild, then we start focusing on if Bolton is the right coach as we add free agents to the kids.


I get the 66 games bit, just not 66 losses.

A re-build doesn't mean insipid, pathetic performances like the last 2 weeks. Just 1 win in 12 games isn't flash for St Kilda circa 1982 so another 2 or 3 for us over the next 3 weeks is a disaster IMO.

There is still something wrong with our group mentally that this can happen 2 weeks running - Collingwood aren't that good.


Lack of leaders on field. Those who will be are still very young.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:56 pm 
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John Nicholls
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The Duke wrote:
Jonosc wrote:
Serious question -
eagles look to have spirit, game plan and talent.
Lions look to have spirit talent and a game plan
Gold Coast spanked us

How is it other teams have instant improvement and yet we just seem to be stagnant, without direction and lost.


It's a good question - meanwhile, the scum was decimated by suspension and sanctions, yet they're in a far superior position to us right now.

Worsfold has taken a basket case to one playing finals in year 1.


They're 1 from 3 and really shouldn't have beaten Adelaide in round 1. I believe in terms of young talent and salary cap commitment, we are actually in better shape than they are long term.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Garry Crane

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there is 1 former coach we could try and get in James Hird thoughts please


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yep, banned.....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18027
robertbb wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Jonosc wrote:
Serious question -
eagles look to have spirit, game plan and talent.
Lions look to have spirit talent and a game plan
Gold Coast spanked us

How is it other teams have instant improvement and yet we just seem to be stagnant, without direction and lost.


It's a good question - meanwhile, the scum was decimated by suspension and sanctions, yet they're in a far superior position to us right now.

Worsfold has taken a basket case to one playing finals in year 1.


They're 1 from 3 and really shouldn't have beaten Adelaide in round 1. I believe in terms of young talent and salary cap commitment, we are actually in better shape than they are long term.


Spot on. Today Essendon* lost to the team who lost Round 1 by 82 points and Round 2 lost to West Coast in Melbourne by 51 points. Western Bulldogs. If I recall the Bulldogs were labelled insipid and had huge internal issues. They then come out and roll the team Duke thinks are in a far superior position to us.
Richmond won the flag last year although they were pumped by St Kilda by 11 goals in one game.
The same Richmond we probably would have beaten 2 weeks ago if we hadn't lost Kreuzer and Kennedy. All that after beating St Kilda and Hawthorn in the JLT.

The media live week to week. 2 weeks ago we're a quality up and coming side with great kids, today we're crap. I can understand them having a short term view because they have to sell papers or be controversial to get air space.

But our own supporters spewing out the same crap, FMD. We've got a supporter base that wants a rebuild but doesn't want to do the hard yards that come with it. They want to play and develop kids but they also want the hard seasoned bodies to be physical. They bitch about 24 point losses with a team full of kids when 2 and a half years ago we were losing by 130 points with a bunch of older players.

You can't have it all. If you support the club to rebuild, have the guts to see it through. Wetting your pants when it gets a bit tough is what Carlton used to do. Sack the coach and bring in a messiah to appease the uneasy whinging masses.
Those days are hopefully gone

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:24 pm 
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I think we need to bring back Post of the Week (again)!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
robertbb wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Jonosc wrote:
Serious question -
eagles look to have spirit, game plan and talent.
Lions look to have spirit talent and a game plan
Gold Coast spanked us

How is it other teams have instant improvement and yet we just seem to be stagnant, without direction and lost.


It's a good question - meanwhile, the scum was decimated by suspension and sanctions, yet they're in a far superior position to us right now.

Worsfold has taken a basket case to one playing finals in year 1.


They're 1 from 3 and really shouldn't have beaten Adelaide in round 1. I believe in terms of young talent and salary cap commitment, we are actually in better shape than they are long term.


Spot on. Today Essendon** lost to the team who lost Round 1 by 82 points and Round 2 lost to West Coast in Melbourne by 51 points. Western Bulldogs. If I recall the Bulldogs were labelled insipid and had huge internal issues. They then come out and roll the team Duke thinks are in a far superior position to us.
Richmond won the flag last year although they were pumped by St Kilda by 11 goals in one game.
The same Richmond we probably would have beaten 2 weeks ago if we hadn't lost Kreuzer and Kennedy. All that after beating St Kilda and Hawthorn in the JLT.

The media live week to week. 2 weeks ago we're a quality up and coming side with great kids, today we're crap. I can understand them having a short term view because they have to sell papers or be controversial to get air space.

But our own supporters spewing out the same crap, FMD. We've got a supporter base that wants a rebuild but doesn't want to do the hard yards that come with it. They want to play and develop kids but they also want the hard seasoned bodies to be physical. They bitch about 24 point losses with a team full of kids when 2 and a half years ago we were losing by 130 points with a bunch of older players.

You can't have it all. If you support the club to rebuild, have the guts to see it through. Wetting your pants when it gets a bit tough is what Carlton used to do. Sack the coach and bring in a messiah to appease the uneasy whinging masses.
Those days are hopefully gone


If we're zip and 6 there will be repucusions - and justifably so. Our list isn't that bad and if it's our on-field leadership - change it! Draw a line in the sand. Stand up for our club, FFS.

Essendon* played finals last year. The year after their ban. I don't think they have a better list, but they've got better mental strength.

Rebuilding is no excuse for bending over and copping a length from all and sundry. It's not a good advert for future free agents.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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smithy wrote:
Chitty's Finger wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We also had 16 CFC listed players get hammered by 21 goals as they 'develop' in the 2s.
How many of those 16 are mids? All talls and defenders. List imbalance is a key issue in the seconds I think. Too tall, too slow.... no emerging mids.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


Absolutely. For years some people on this site and that disgrace of a place called Bigfooty have been screaming/pleading ad nauseam for the club to get mids. But no; we were told we didn't know what we were talking about and that the club knew what they were doing, trust the club blah,blah,blah. They were far too reactive, Now Kerridge and Graham are our mid depth smfh. Meanwhile we got rid of Holman, and I don't care what his problems were at least he could tackle and was a mid. Love to know how bringing in Mullet, O'Shea, Shaw, Palmer, Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips, Lobbe etc, was ever going to help our rebuild. We never actually fully committed to the rebuild early and we are paying the price now.
Because idiots in the industry go on about "Look what happened to Melbourne" it perpetuates and becomes the template so you have to recruit a slew of recycled journeyman to "help and protect" the kids, fmd. It's appears all a bit haphazard.


And (I make no apology for sounding like a smashed up record), with a dearth of mids, so many on this site have placed the cross hairs on Polson's head. FFS, anybody who is calling for Polson to be dropped is (a) lazily looking for the easiest scapegoat and (b) has little understanding that we have invested time and money into him. The kid has potential. That potential will not be realised in the magoos. As others have pointed out, had he kicked the two goals instead of two points, the discussion would've been totally different. OK, he missed, big deal...how many heartbreaking misses have Kerridge, Graham, Thomas, Casboult, Cripps and even Murphy served up over the years??

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