Teddy Hopkins wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Just to weigh in: I'm not really against getting Cloke. I'm not sure we SHOULD get him but I think he'd be pretty good for us if we do.
I can't really understand the vehement (and simetimes vitriolic) opposition to it though.
To me it is the 5 years. We have young KPP coming through. Think Casboult Mitchell McCarthy as well as Henderson. If we could get him for 3 years maybe, but 5 years is reserved for a champion like Judd. Cloke is no champ. He plays the occasional good game that's for sure but what will he be like at 30 and we are still paying him a million a year?
Which is the greater issue for you here - That 5 years will stunt the devleopment of our KPPs (considering that two you listed are developing in our backline and the oher two are more FF types not CHF) or that Cloke simply won't be any good after 5 years?
How much do clubs spend to get a flag? How much do some clubs spend over 5 years to get a flag and not even get a sniff? Would you say $5M is worth it if we get a flag? I thnk I would, all things considered.
What if Cloke comes to us and delivers one or two standout dominating seasons, where he wins the Coleman with 80-90 goals, is the number 1 contested mark in the comp and is basically unstoppable, and we win the flag in the process? The next couple of years he's dominant, in the top eschelon of forwards but not unbeatable and where we still are serious finals contenders, maybe winning another flag either consecutively or a year inbetween. The final year or so he's serviceable but a tad injury-prone. Is that worth $5M? If we won two flags out of that I'd say it's worth $6M.
For years we've talked about the need for a KPF; commentators have spent hours and hours talking about our forward line as our Achilles Heel and the need for a tall option as the final piece in the puzzle alongside the elite midfield, the mostly stable backline and the three No.1 draft picks. We've tried a KPP with little success who was eventually developed in the backline to great effect. We've tried backmen as last-resort forwards, swingmen as stopgap forwards, midfielders as resting forwards, ruckmen as wannabe forwards, we've tried wannabe ruckmen as never gonna be forwards. Eye surgeries, hand transplants, a midget with parachute pants is still our tall forward option, and NOTHING changes. Here we have an opportunity to finally get a bonafide tall marking forward and people are baulking? If you don't think he's going to regain form in a new environment especially if MM is appointed, you're crazy. There's no club who'd have refused him on 2011 form. One year's a long time, I reckon he's still got it.
Casboult and Mitchell are still very unknown quantities and have a long way to go in any case, McCarthy could be our next tall defender and I believe Hendo will stay in the backline - talking to him last year he really enjoyed his time there and really wants to develop as a defender. Whether a new coach will change this I don't know, but I reckon Lachie would be petrified at the thought of becoming the target for CFC supporters' bronx cheers and vitriol again. It's clear we simply don't have immediate time to wait and develop a full-time exclusive young forward line over the next 4-5 years - supporters are too impatient and this deficiency has been frustrating for too long. There is still room for Casboult and Mitchell to develop with Cloke at CHF, I reckon you'd start to see some of the likes of Garlett, Walker, Betts etc become more attacking midfielders in the process. If Cloke does his thing at the top level for 2-3 seasons, that results in 1-2 flags for us, he's flaky-ish for one and spends the last in the Northern Blues while Casboult and/or Mitchell are dominating, so be it...money well spent.
How much did we pay for Judd? What impact, really, has it made? What did we lose in the process? We still have no flags, his contribution to the midfield arrangements (along with our midfield coach) has been average and now his leadership has even come into question. Worth it?
What will we lose with Cloke? Money obviously. No picks and we gain the potential to fill a hole that's been abyssmal for years.
There's two main issues here:
- Is $5M too much to pay? and
- Is 5 years too long?
To the first, yep I think it's a bit much. Get him for $750-800K and it's probably a bit more realistic. I'm sure there's ways and means to make it happen regardless, teams find a way. I also think the 5 years is more important than the $5M.
To the second, I really don't care, for all the reasons stated above. I don't believe he'll stunt the development of our young forwards like Fev did, I believe he's got a better workrate and offers a lot more as a team player also. Like I said, if he has 2-3 top years, 1 flaky year and he sits in the Northern Blues for his final season as the highest paid VFL forward of all time, I really don't care - if we get 1-2 flags out of that, it has been a success. If we don't...it's just Judd all over again isn't it?
Gotta roll the dice, gotta ask the questions. Yes Cabsoult
could be the answer to our FF problem in a couple of years...or he could still kick badly and get delisted as we all expected last year. Yes, Mitchell could be an answer to our forward dilemmas in 3-4 years...if his arms don't fall off. In 2-4 years, who will have retired, lost form, gained injuries in the process to create further deficiencies? The window is either open or it's closed, it's not left permanently ajar. If it's open, we've gotta go and we've gotta go NOW. If it isn't, thanks for coming Judd Simmo Scotto Carrots etc, hopefully we'll have some relatively decent susbstitutes for you after we've waited for some young forwards to (maybe) come on.
No guts no glory, take the risk I say...
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