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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:52 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
Read the post. I didn't say he doesn't want to play ruck. I said "if he doesn't want to".
The coaches should give him the option and "if" he chooses not to accept it, move on from there.
So go bother someone else with your bullshit. Calling out Danny. He can't think for himself based off the facts. He must have been spooked by other posters because he has a different view.
It's the way you work. Patrolling the site attempting to devalue anyone who dares have an opinion different to yours. Baiting them into your childish games of endless @#$%&! arguments. Get over it. I'm not here to conform to what suits you.


Gidday BlueVain . Always appreciate your well thought out input . I like everybody's input , thats what makes this site so good . However , prior to being injured Harry was taking a lot of boundary throw in ruck work so he is already doing what you want him to .

PS.............. i don't want to stick my nose into other peoples quarrels but all i will say is BlueVain and Bondi both get my respect for there topnotch posts . Couple of rippers for mine .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:01 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Not jumping at shadows just wondering - after all IF we lose we need to try and work out why (or is it just luck...or umpires...or some such shite?) Its not about what is - its about what is best and its just thoughts...that's all.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:13 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The Harry Stay or Trade discussion is always interesting.

He turns 26 in December.

My question marks on Harry from the very first time I saw him play at Gippsland Power revolved around his mental toughness and physical intensity.

After 8 seasons this is his legacy.......
106 games
Coleman Medal: 2021
All-Australian: 2021
22 under 22 team: 2019
3x Carlton leading goalkicker: 2019, 2020, 2021

After all that, why do I still wonder about his mental toughness (kicking) and intensity (Ruckwork and overall physicality in a game).

The Coaches obviously love him, otherwise the 7 year deal becomes very confusing. His team-mates love him. Not for a minute do I think he is going anywhere.

I can't fault anything BV has posted and alot of times I feel the same way. You are allowed to love a player, but still be frustrated with his errors. Harry's best can be a joy, but his poor skill efforts and lack of intensity, are simply not good enough for a man on a 7 year contract.

If Carlton wanted to trade him, I would get it. If they want to keep him, I get it. Only they know where he is at in his own skin/mind and with the work he puts in to improve. By all accounts, he is an absolute professional on and off the track.

I wonder in this thread, that if Carlton hadn't turned its season around, and we had ended up are 15th, what the discussion would be on Harry.

On game day, Harry has to get his act together to reach a level that warrants his big pay packet over 7 years. Those disappointing misses on goal are just not acceptable. They are Coach killers, Team killers and Game losers.

My take is - TDK is a Ruck, first and foremost, that can drift forward. Having Pitto in the team when TDK is in full flight is a shear luxury if Harry can help out in the Ruck 5-8 minutes per quarter. And not help out as merely a Token gesture. Really get stuck in and dominate with his height and spring. Having SOS on the bench provides far greater flexibility for the team than Pitto.

BV's query about Charlie/Harry and TDK/Pitto is well warranted.

For Voss to be able to rotate TDK, Harry and SOS through the Forwardline/Ruck would be a massive bonus. Pitto then becomes superfluous to requirements. I guess that type of game plan all depends on the ability for TDK to carry the #1 Ruck mantle in 2024.

As an aside - Harry Lemmey turns 20 in Jan 2024. Hopefully he has gotten his head around AFL commitment and has decided he is all in. If he is half smart, he should see the possible writing on the wall over the next 2 years and totally smash himself this pre-season. Come the end of 2024 there could well be a massive window of opportunity for him to form the TDK/Lemmy - Ruck/Forward combo in 2025.

I hope Harry stands up this week and next, to carry the Team to 17. Plenty of eyes will be on his performance, both mentally and physically.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17944
Mickstar wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Read the post. I didn't say he doesn't want to play ruck. I said "if he doesn't want to".
The coaches should give him the option and "if" he chooses not to accept it, move on from there.
So go bother someone else with your bullshit. Calling out Danny. He can't think for himself based off the facts. He must have been spooked by other posters because he has a different view.
It's the way you work. Patrolling the site attempting to devalue anyone who dares have an opinion different to yours. Baiting them into your childish games of endless @#$%&! arguments. Get over it. I'm not here to conform to what suits you.


Gidday BlueVain . Always appreciate your well thought out input . I like everybody's input , thats what makes this site so good . However , prior to being injured Harry was taking a lot of boundary throw in ruck work so he is already doing what you want him to .


He is almost Mick. He needs to give a chop out in the ruck for 5 minutes per quarter. That's it! That includes centre bounce if required. It's a small ask so TDK can get a rest.
My post was clearly about the future. I clearly said in the off season. I didn't say he has refused. I didn't say he's a trouble maker.
It's the way forward IMO, 1 rotating ruck/forward and Charlie at all times in the front half with one of the Jacks, and 3 smalls. And if Harry doesn't want to be a part of it, I'd trade him. But he's first choice to be a part of it.
The decisions have to be made on what's best for team. Not individual. Our results show we have the most success with that structure.

As for differences with posters. Where I grew up you don't sit back and let people take pot shots at you and happily accept it. I offered my opinion. If you disagree, come back with reasons and we discuss the merits based on the info available. But that response was just inflammatory crap. Dismissing others accusing them of forming an opinion by being spooked by others or jumping at shadows is also dismissive bullshit. Danny is a highly credentialed poster and deserves way better than that.
We may as well shut the site down if we all have to follow the party line provided by a few.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 2:05 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7168
Blue Vain wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Read the post. I didn't say he doesn't want to play ruck. I said "if he doesn't want to".
The coaches should give him the option and "if" he chooses not to accept it, move on from there.
So go bother someone else with your bullshit. Calling out Danny. He can't think for himself based off the facts. He must have been spooked by other posters because he has a different view.
It's the way you work. Patrolling the site attempting to devalue anyone who dares have an opinion different to yours. Baiting them into your childish games of endless @#$%&! arguments. Get over it. I'm not here to conform to what suits you.


Gidday BlueVain . Always appreciate your well thought out input . I like everybody's input , thats what makes this site so good . However , prior to being injured Harry was taking a lot of boundary throw in ruck work so he is already doing what you want him to .


He is almost Mick. He needs to give a chop out in the ruck for 5 minutes per quarter. That's it! That includes centre bounce if required. It's a small ask so TDK can get a rest.
My post was clearly about the future. I clearly said in the off season. I didn't say he has refused. I didn't say he's a trouble maker.
It's the way forward IMO, 1 rotating ruck/forward and Charlie at all times in the front half with one of the Jacks, and 3 smalls. And if Harry doesn't want to be a part of it, I'd trade him. But he's first choice to be a part of it.
The decisions have to be made on what's best for team. Not individual. Our results show we have the most success with that structure.

As for differences with posters. Where I grew up you don't sit back and let people take pot shots at you and happily accept it. I offered my opinion. If you disagree, come back with reasons and we discuss the merits based on the info available. Dismissing others accusing them of forming an opinion by being spooked by others or jumping at shadows is dismissive bullshit. Danny is a highly credentialed poster and deserves way more than that.
We may as well shut the site down if we all have to follow the party line provided by a few.


Good on you BlueVain ................ always good . Like i said mate , all the different opinions make this site so i agree . Shit , it would be a dull old world if we all agreed .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24678
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
Read the post. I didn't say he doesn't want to play ruck. I said "if he doesn't want to".
The coaches should give him the option and "if" he chooses not to accept it, move on from there.
So go bother someone else with your bullshit. Calling out Danny. He can't think for himself based off the facts. He must have been spooked by other posters because he has a different view.
It's the way you work. Patrolling the site attempting to devalue anyone who dares have an opinion different to yours. Baiting them into your childish games of endless @#$%&! arguments. Get over it. I'm not here to conform to what suits you.



Blue Vain

I explained myself, and I was just trying to help you understand why you are rubbing posters the wrong way with the way you pitch your so called "opinions".

As someone said, you don't like to be challenged, and can't handle it. I agree with that, but doesn't put me off reading your posts.

Its the way you pitch your "opinion" that's just not an opinion anymore. Its really obvious.

I did read your post.

You need to go and read your post, and the posts you have been pulled up on and ask yourself straight: Do my "opinions" sound like a matter of fact or an opinion?

You start the sentence with "if"...then go onto telling us

Quote:
Now if Harry could play the forward/ruck role, that would solve a heap of problems. [url]But at this stage, he doesn't appear to have the ability and/or inclination[/url].
Starts with "If " then followed by a description of Harry's inclination.

Quote:
So either Harry becomes a competitive second ruck like Joe Daniher (5 minutes per quarter) during the off season or if he doesn't want to, I'd look to trade him. We have to do whatever it takes to win as many games as possible as a team. Not cater to the needs of individual players.


You make it sound like Harry wants it his way and not following the coaches instructions or preferences., You are telling us Vossy shouldn't cater to individual needs. WTF is that? How is that an opinion? How is Harry manipulating anyone. Maybe Harry is just a shithouse ruckman and he's trying his best.

Its not Bullshit. The coaches have instructed Harry to play ruck. We all witnessed it. He looked out of place. The coaches said it was a trial. The coaches have said several times lately they prefer 2 KPs and 2 rucks. What makes you believe the coaches haven't asked him. They have but its you who wont move on (as you suggest).

As for dannyboy, did you notice in his post he is asking questions.

Quote:
going into this weekend's game I worry about that forward line of Harry/Curnow/TDK
or do we rest TDK on the bench when Pitto is rucking? Does that reduce our run?

Also - and I don't know the answer - Does playing Pitto/TDK,Charlie and Harry, does it hurt our turnover game?


With respect, I responded, assuming he wanted a response from members of the Public Forum. Get it? So I did respond to the questions.

Like him I don't the answer and suggested with the word "maybe" you've been spooked. Did you take that personal? Sounds like it.

You like to bring other posters into your fights?

Like Sydney said the other day, something about giving up on your hatred of Harry. There's a reason for that. And sinbagger wasn't looking for a fight, he just responded to your wording...I mean "opinions", and he countered that with an example you conveniently avoided.

Go and have a cold shower, have a good read of your posts, ask yourself the hard question, and show some respect to posters who respect you, coz the opposite isn't working. Its time for your reality check.

like Jake said, get a room if you've got a personal gripe, and lets stick to football and discuss footy issues in an open minded manner.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24678
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Read the post. I didn't say he doesn't want to play ruck. I said "if he doesn't want to".
The coaches should give him the option and "if" he chooses not to accept it, move on from there.
So go bother someone else with your bullshit. Calling out Danny. He can't think for himself based off the facts. He must have been spooked by other posters because he has a different view.
It's the way you work. Patrolling the site attempting to devalue anyone who dares have an opinion different to yours. Baiting them into your childish games of endless @#$%&! arguments. Get over it. I'm not here to conform to what suits you.


Gidday BlueVain . Always appreciate your well thought out input . I like everybody's input , thats what makes this site so good . However , prior to being injured Harry was taking a lot of boundary throw in ruck work so he is already doing what you want him to .


He is almost Mick. He needs to give a chop out in the ruck for 5 minutes per quarter. That's it! That includes centre bounce if required. It's a small ask so TDK can get a rest.
My post was clearly about the future. I clearly said in the off season. I didn't say he has refused. I didn't say he's a trouble maker.
It's the way forward IMO, 1 rotating ruck/forward and Charlie at all times in the front half with one of the Jacks, and 3 smalls. And if Harry doesn't want to be a part of it, I'd trade him. But he's first choice to be a part of it.
The decisions have to be made on what's best for team. Not individual. Our results show we have the most success with that structure.

As for differences with posters. Where I grew up you don't sit back and let people take pot shots at you and happily accept it. I offered my opinion. If you disagree, come back with reasons and we discuss the merits based on the info available. But that response was just inflammatory crap. Dismissing others accusing them of forming an opinion by being spooked by others or jumping at shadows is also dismissive bullshit. Danny is a highly credentialed poster and deserves way better than that.
We may as well shut the site down if we all have to follow the party line provided by a few.


You need conjure a way to bring in dannyboy to add value to your "opinions" or to get him to stick up for you? Is that something you do because of the part of town you grew up in?

We were all born somewhere, and doesn't matter where we we grew up. You are either a gentleman and team player or a bully with no shame. You've become the latter in a big way.

I try and stay away from the crap you dish out and post and admire the good stuff, and typically you have a go when I'm trying to help you to seek to understand. Go and have a re read of what you write and what you think you're writing; you'll work it out. Got nothing to do with part of town you are from.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:24 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10474
I'll just add - I've had the Harry discussion with others as well, and totally understand their point of view.
McKay is essential to our current lineup, but if he was a little more physical in the contest, I feel many wouldn't be debating his worth to the team. I would say that is the reason we don't play him ruck as well.
What I keep saying to others, we sometimes need to accept players don't have all the same qualities, and sometimes or nearly never, they just can't change their characteristics. His last injury for instance wouldn't have occurred if he had a little more mongrel at the contest.
It's hard for many to accept, equally myself but I guess as you get older you mellow. I just love the big lug though.


Last edited by SurreyBlue on Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:23 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Mickstar wrote:
Shit , it would be a dull old world if we all agreed .



Agree

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:23 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Nahwaitaminute....!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Seriously I don't read anything petty or provocative in BV's posts, whatsoever. Maybe I'm biased because I've met him on a couple of occasions, & always enjoyed a chat. Both in person & online.

The trade Harry debate is a moot point unless we know what the actual offer could be, which we don't.

If it was 2 top 10 picks plus another pick you'd have to at least be open to discussions. If it was pick 40 & a lock of Trent Sporn's hair, you'd not be open to it.

Let's just wait & see if clubs like Sydney & Melbourne come knocking.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:07 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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hang on nobody brought me ion the harry conversation is one I've been having with my brothers for about 2 @#$%&! years.
@#$%&! me, discuss the points not the person - its actually really simple.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Mods you might have to close this thread and re open the one about the Orange Baboon.

BTW :eek: Where are those 4 fwits with the low IQ’s. I almost miss them. I know they aren’t actually Carlton supporters but……………….they were fun to dance with. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Shit , its hard to believe we all barrack for the same side sometimes . Me , nah , i save my venom the opposition . Even that gets harder as you get older . I turned 76 today so you might say i have mellowed . Anyhow , despite the bickering i love ya's all .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Cazzesman wrote:
BTW :eek: Where are those 4 fwits with the low IQ’s.



Daniher
Hipwood
Zorko
Cameron


Found em for you...

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Mickstar wrote:
Shit , its hard to believe we all barrack for the same side sometimes . Me , nah , i save my venom the opposition . Even that gets harder as you get older . I turned 76 today so you might say i have mellowed . Anyhow , despite the bickering i love ya's all .


76 going on 50. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Go Blues.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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CK95 wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
BTW :eek: Where are those 4 fwits with the low IQ’s.



Daniher
Hipwood
Zorko
Cameron


Found em for you...


Very, very close CK. :donk:

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Cazzesman wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Shit , its hard to believe we all barrack for the same side sometimes . Me , nah , i save my venom the opposition . Even that gets harder as you get older . I turned 76 today so you might say i have mellowed . Anyhow , despite the bickering i love ya's all .


76 going on 50. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Go Blues.

Regards Cazzesman


Thanks Cazz . Believe it or not i was actually working full-time 12 months ago . Still on the payroll coz i am on long service leave . You have probably noticed i have posted a lot more in the last 12 months with all the extra time i have .

PS...............hey Cazz , do us all a favour and get your head around the upcoming draft . Still fondly remember your stuff on The Blue Veiw . I know you are not as involved anymore but i still reckon you would have a good handle on things .

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Everyone on the wrong side of the Harry debate needs to pull their head out of their arse.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:08 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Crusader wrote:
Everyone on the wrong side of the Harry debate needs to pull their head out of their arse.


And here we have a perfect example.
You cannot have a debate about the value of a player. If you don't conform to the opinions of certain posters, you have your head up your arse.
The only contribution to the discussion is attempting to denigrate anyone with an alternate view. How insightful.
And people wonder why I get agitated.

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