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Molly
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:28 am 
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Robert Walls
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Hey Punter,

agree with you fully. Anyone on here who thinks we haven't taken steps forward this year is in la la land. Yeah, more needs to be done... in fact, much more needs to be done. But with where we've come from... well we've certainly taken some serious strides forward.
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Steve_C7
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:07 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
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Synbad wrote:
If you never raise questions you will never search for answers... if you dont have answers youre dumb!!!....

take my word for it... thats how the world works...


Thankyou are you ready to answer the questions that I asked you or are you telling me that you are dumb?

Again, who did you want as coach that was available?

If Carlos can kick does he deserve to stay on the list for the next 3 years as a spoiler only?

Who would you put in the forward line to fix it?


Pretty simple questions don't you think.
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Steve_C7
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:12 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
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Melvey wrote:
It was interesting to hear Malcolm Blight say that some coaches are to focused on playing perfect football.

I know many on here and in the football world have torn Matty Knights attacking style of game plan to shreds but i seem to think it's the right way to go about it with a young list.

Ratts keeping's off and hanging on style of game plan as a cop out for when players are under the pump. Almost as if the players think hey, shit what do i do so they dish it off instead of thinking there way through it.

It's much harder t be bold and have the confidence to attack. Our first option when we have the ball is to look back, handball backwards, kick backwards and dish the pressure off to someone else.

Yeah the bombers seem to get smashed because they go through the corridor and take the game on but Matty Knights has said from the very first day that this is plan. getting the bombers to play bold football and then they will work on the defensive side.

Where as we play with a negative mind set before the ball is bounced. How encouraging must it be for our players when the focus is on playing this keeping's off contested style of play or we run the risk of getting belted.

You can attack with vigor just as you can defend with it to.


Gee, Matty Knights (only got the job because he lied about the list) has been bold in playing an attacking brand of footy :shock:

For all their attack, we have scored nearly 100 more points than them so far this year. So who's doing more of the attcking? :roll:
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Molly
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:23 am 
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Robert Walls
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Gee Melvey,

we played attacking footy last year. Denis was encouraging the players to play their natural games remember? And I had the pleasure of being at the Gabba to watch it all unfold too :shock:

So ummm yeah, we've been down the Matty Knights path before. It is a fool's paradise.
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Wild Blue Yonder
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:25 am 
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Robert Walls
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Wow, this is after a loss to last year's premiers. God forbid we lose to Richmond or Essendon* in the weeks ahead.

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dannyboy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:15 am 
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Ken Hunter
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if we do it'll be Ratts fault, if we don't its because it is Essendon* and Richmond...win/win/lose/lose really.

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Punter22
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:30 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Molly wrote:
Hey Punter,

agree with you fully. Anyone on here who thinks we haven't taken steps forward this year is in la la land. Yeah, more needs to be done... in fact, much more needs to be done. But with where we've come from... well we've certainly taken some serious strides forward.


Yep, that's the point. We are nowhere near where we want to be, I think everyone agrees with that. But if we think it's all going to happen this quickly we are kidding ourselves.

Just give them time and they'll be ok. They've had a lot to take in the last 10 months or so.

Enjoy the ride!!
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Wojee
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:30 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Wild Blue Yonder wrote:
Wow, this is after a loss to last year's premiers. God forbid we lose to Richmond or Essendon* in the weeks ahead.


I guess it's better than having these kind of threads posted after every game like in the last few seasons.

Some posters really are glass-half-empty people.

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4thchicken
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:57 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 3136
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If you never raise questions you will never search for answers... if you dont have answers youre dumb!!!....

take my word for it... thats how the world works...


so according to your logic, you either know everything (yet refuse to answer 1/2 the questions posed to you when they counter your arguements) or you are dumb...


If im dumb and youre smart how come you would have traded Fev 4 years ago and kept Lance???....and each second to third post of yours for 4 or 5 years is about trading Fev...???

Just out of curiosity...

I've never claimed to be smart - and I certainly dont follow your logic.

On Fev - I'd have traded him years ago on the basis of his poor onfield application and high trade value. I also recognise the drawbacks of having him as our primary/dominant forward (90+% of I50 entries directed to him) and the impact that has on our other forwards that we have tried to develop (who are invariably starved of the ball). I've tempered my calls for him to be traded as his on field application has improved over the past year or so, however I am still willing to trade him for a good deal as I believe our current team (which is still in development mode) would benefit more from having multiple 'lesser' forward targets rather than the one dominant force.

On lance, I felt he had a fair bit to offer the team though due to circumstances he was being played out of position (I'd have had him deep forward/FF). I'm still comfortable with that position. In terms of what went wrong - well knee injuries and being forced to switch continually back and forward shortened his career.

So now that I've explained my position, perhaps you wish to expand on your logic - do you claim to know everything or are you dumb? or perhaps you just dont think through every rant before you post it...


yeah thanks for explaining yourself..... but it was ridiculous thinking...!!!

again thanks...


actuall I have been, and sill am fairly correct in my asessment of where fev is in our team - we still look for him wen going forward too much to the detriment of our team.

so are you dumb or a self proclaimed know-all?
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club29
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:08 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9108
Location: Nth Fitzroy
have to admit that it is a bit 80's the way ours and essendons forward lines are set up.

Can we change fev and get him to play one part in a functional forward line or do we trade him and build a modern forward line?

Steak and eggs at the moment though.

I am prepared to watch Ratts have a go for the duration of his contract. I dont care how little he is getting paid.

So far things are going as i expected.
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bluekettle
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:42 am
Posts: 336
The Tyrant wrote:
I hoped I would not read about Pagan again on this site.........

one of the worst things that ever happened to this club. thinking about his reign of incompetence still makes my blood boil

one of the worst coaches of all time


I don’t think so, the trouble was that most senior Carlton Players were very spoiled by Wayne Brittain while he was an ***hole to the fringe players just ask Withnall and most senior Players and they will tell you that Brittain was the best Coach that they ever played under, then go and ask the like of Simon Fletcher and lesser Carlton Players and they will tell you quite the opposite and this is why that the players ganged up on Pagan and why he was on the nose around the Club and the Committee headed by Kernahan stopped him getting the players that he wanted with the excuse of the over twenty four years old players policy and make way for Mitchell to take over, although finally they went for Ratten instead.
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Synbad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If you never raise questions you will never search for answers... if you dont have answers youre dumb!!!....

take my word for it... thats how the world works...


so according to your logic, you either know everything (yet refuse to answer 1/2 the questions posed to you when they counter your arguements) or you are dumb...


If im dumb and youre smart how come you would have traded Fev 4 years ago and kept Lance???....and each second to third post of yours for 4 or 5 years is about trading Fev...???

Just out of curiosity...

I've never claimed to be smart - and I certainly dont follow your logic.

On Fev - I'd have traded him years ago on the basis of his poor onfield application and high trade value. I also recognise the drawbacks of having him as our primary/dominant forward (90+% of I50 entries directed to him) and the impact that has on our other forwards that we have tried to develop (who are invariably starved of the ball). I've tempered my calls for him to be traded as his on field application has improved over the past year or so, however I am still willing to trade him for a good deal as I believe our current team (which is still in development mode) would benefit more from having multiple 'lesser' forward targets rather than the one dominant force.

On lance, I felt he had a fair bit to offer the team though due to circumstances he was being played out of position (I'd have had him deep forward/FF). I'm still comfortable with that position. In terms of what went wrong - well knee injuries and being forced to switch continually back and forward shortened his career.

So now that I've explained my position, perhaps you wish to expand on your logic - do you claim to know everything or are you dumb? or perhaps you just dont think through every rant before you post it...


yeah thanks for explaining yourself..... but it was ridiculous thinking...!!!

again thanks...


actuall I have been, and sill am fairly correct in my asessment of where fev is in our team - we still look for him wen going forward too much to the detriment of our team.

so are you dumb or a self proclaimed know-all?


Whats how Fev is played got to do with Fev or keeping or trading Fev ...

Wouldnt that have ore to do with our planning??? :lol:

What we do know.. is Fev migth win the Coleman if he had a decent coach who can set up properly.... but Lance isnt playing...Oh yeah.... "he was going to teach our kids stuff"


Did you mean "he was going to teach our kids stuff all"?

Getting back to the coaching.....

Sure we have improved as some players have improved(dont forget JUDD!!!!).. collectively and how they play as a team is incoherent....

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Steve_C7
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
Steve_C7 wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If you never raise questions you will never search for answers... if you dont have answers youre dumb!!!....

take my word for it... thats how the world works...


Thankyou are you ready to answer the questions that I asked you or are you telling me that you are dumb?

Again, who did you want as coach that was available?

If Carlos can kick does he deserve to stay on the list for the next 3 years as a spoiler only?

Who would you put in the forward line to fix it?


Pretty simple questions don't you think.


Synbad, your silence is deafening.

Bit like a girl that I work with that b1tches and moans about anything and everything, when given the chance to offer how should can improve the areas that she complains so much about, her response is much like your own.
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Synbad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:47 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Steve_C7 wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If you never raise questions you will never search for answers... if you dont have answers youre dumb!!!....

take my word for it... thats how the world works...


Thankyou are you ready to answer the questions that I asked you or are you telling me that you are dumb?

Again, who did you want as coach that was available?

If Carlos can kick does he deserve to stay on the list for the next 3 years as a spoiler only?

Who would you put in the forward line to fix it?


Pretty simple questions don't you think.


Synbad, your silence is deafening.

Bit like a girl that I work with that b1tches and moans about anything and everything, when given the chance to offer how should can improve the areas that she complains so much about, her response is much like your own.


Now now steve,,, you shouldnt be comparing me to a girl... unless youre up for one..

whats setanta got to do with kicking out set plays????

like why does he remain on our list as the designated kicker???

i really am trying to follow you... youre saying that setanta cant stay on the list cos he should be kicking out right????..


its not my job to employ footy coaches.. but it seems we went through a Grant Thomas process.. because we couldnt get Voss ....

but...... that doesnt mean Ratts isnt the best available prospect.... but the problem remains we didnt explore all options....
.......and ratts has no coherency in many areas of the teamplay...

people say were better... yes!!! thrw juddy into any team and theyre automatically better.... add a few early picks maturing and so what is ratts influence as head coach???....

were doing so many things poorly....


but youre not answering questions steve... how about whats our ick out strategy.. if you are saying i dont know it.. can you fill me in....???
is it effective???

and whatabout those examples of blocking you saw... where are they????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.
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4thchicken
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 3136
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If you never raise questions you will never search for answers... if you dont have answers youre dumb!!!....

take my word for it... thats how the world works...


so according to your logic, you either know everything (yet refuse to answer 1/2 the questions posed to you when they counter your arguements) or you are dumb...


If im dumb and youre smart how come you would have traded Fev 4 years ago and kept Lance???....and each second to third post of yours for 4 or 5 years is about trading Fev...???

Just out of curiosity...

I've never claimed to be smart - and I certainly dont follow your logic.

On Fev - I'd have traded him years ago on the basis of his poor onfield application and high trade value. I also recognise the drawbacks of having him as our primary/dominant forward (90+% of I50 entries directed to him) and the impact that has on our other forwards that we have tried to develop (who are invariably starved of the ball). I've tempered my calls for him to be traded as his on field application has improved over the past year or so, however I am still willing to trade him for a good deal as I believe our current team (which is still in development mode) would benefit more from having multiple 'lesser' forward targets rather than the one dominant force.

On lance, I felt he had a fair bit to offer the team though due to circumstances he was being played out of position (I'd have had him deep forward/FF). I'm still comfortable with that position. In terms of what went wrong - well knee injuries and being forced to switch continually back and forward shortened his career.

So now that I've explained my position, perhaps you wish to expand on your logic - do you claim to know everything or are you dumb? or perhaps you just dont think through every rant before you post it...


yeah thanks for explaining yourself..... but it was ridiculous thinking...!!!

again thanks...


actuall I have been, and sill am fairly correct in my asessment of where fev is in our team - we still look for him wen going forward too much to the detriment of our team.

so are you dumb or a self proclaimed know-all?


Whats how Fev is played got to do with Fev or keeping or trading Fev ...

Wouldnt that have ore to do with our planning??? :lol:

What we do know.. is Fev migth win the Coleman if he had a decent coach who can set up properly.... but Lance isnt playing...Oh yeah.... "he was going to teach our kids stuff"


Did you mean "he was going to teach our kids stuff all"?

Getting back to the coaching.....

Sure we have improved as some players have improved(dont forget JUDD!!!!).. collectively and how they play as a team is incoherent....


lance is no longer an issue as he is not on the list.

fev is an issue - if we arent able to tructure the team so that we are not as reliant on him kicking goals to win the I'd trade him. I'd also trade him if he goes back to old habits of sooking on field and failing to chase.

These points arent too difficult to understand.

So are you a dumb or a self proclaimed knowall?
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Synbad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Fev isnt the probem why we cant structure.. planning is... :lol:

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DIAMOTISM
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Going to Fev 9/10 times is not going to win you a premiership.

Double team Fev and you beat Carlton.

Our option is Fev.

At Sydney it is O'Laughlin, Hall or O'Keefe (and more)

At Geelong it is Mooney, Ablett, Johnson, Chapmen (and more)

At Hawthorn it is Buddy, Roughhead or Williams (and more)

The players I mention above can play other positions if they are having a bad day. Where can Fev play if having a bad day???? The bench.

At Essendon* it is Lloyd - we are following Essendon*'s game plan

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4thchicken
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 3136
Synbad wrote:
Fev isnt the probem why we cant structure.. planning is... :lol:


A few rounds of football wont change a mindset that has been built up over 7 seasons (kick it to fev at all costs). Fevs best position is FF however unless we are prepared to play him elsewhere (ie further away from goals at CHF) then we will struggle to change the mindset of our midfielders/team.

Having Fev at CHF would force the mids to look up for options if they are around 60 out for other players when kicking inside 50 as the fev beacon will no longer be there.
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DIAMOTISM
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Synbad wrote:
Fev isnt the probem why we cant structure.. planning is... :lol:


How can we snare 3 very good forwards if we pay one very good forward the price of 3 very good forwards???

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Steve_C7
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
Synbad wrote:

but youre not answering questions steve... how about whats our ick out strategy.. if you are saying i dont know it.. can you fill me in....???
is it effective???

and whatabout those examples of blocking you saw... where are they????


Most teams allow you to kick the first kick in to hit up a target inside the defensive 50, it's the second kick outside the 50 that is the crucial one and its the guys with the better kicks that you want to have possession at that time. So in effect Carlos kicking in should have a base level of skill to hit an unmaned player inside the 50 that should be a good kick - gibbs, Stevo, Judd, Murph, Scotland etc

The real strategy is opening up the middle or fat side to switch play imediately after the short kick in.

I saw most players block and shepard after they handballed of to that player Gibbs, Armfield, Judd, Murph and even Carrazzo. The real problem is the hospital handpasses, but that's another topic
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