Coaching Axe Looms for Denis Pagan

fullmont101 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:44 am

Not sure if this is old news, but looks like we will have news on Pagan's future tonight.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20354558-11088,00.html

Quote:

DENIS Pagan's head will be on the chopping block at a crucial meeting tonight after several Carlton directors privately endorsed assistant Barry Mitchell to replace him.

Electric Blue · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:12 am **Posts:** 10076

Yeah old news, actually I'll be amazed if it lasts until tonight, I would expect something earlier.

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

jim wrote:

Jarusa wrote:

If Mitchell is chosen I hope like hell we follow the 'Hawthorn 2005' model with a coach under instruction to play as many kids as possible and finish low on the ladder.

We need 4 wins or less next year.

What absolute sh1t

well argued as usual jimbob. :roll:

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18076

What a farce.
Wes Lofts preaching about financial management and seeing out contracts. :lol:

And what is Smorgons "fraternity"?

Go back in your hole with your bitter mate, Wes.

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

Caroline Wilson Ripping into Kernahan

Plenty of blame being handed around.

This is going to be messy.

Synbad · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:37 am

Sticks hates Caro and doesnt give her stories to print (As you may have noticed(

True story...

Secondly , how can Pagan go into next year with any confidence, even if he does survive?
It will be hell for everyone if he survives this.

Synbad · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:12 am

Can i also add.. its about time someone put some heat up Sticks???

He has been abit like Frank Spencer ..calamity wise... and has been allowed to get off Scot Free...

However this is something that just has to be done.. there is alot of hate behind the scenes and alot of the kids just are not enjoying themselves.

fullmont101 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:22 am

Not fussed if Pagan stays or goes, but like Synbad said, from here its going to hard with/for Denis.

This shit needs to get sorted out very quickly, do not want this shit still going on around trade or worst, draft time. These next bunch of players dont need to bought into this sort of shit.

Blue Bird · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:26 am

McKaysMistress wrote:

This whole scenario is making me very nervous. I don't have an issue with a "review" and assessing our options, but like DannyBoy, I have grave concerns about this board and their motives behind the "review". It screams to me of a board taking a course of action to secure their positions and if some lost souls wander home as EB has alluded to then that will confirm it for me.

And how Kernahan qualified to conduct a "review" and how can we have any faith in his recommendation when he was involved in the process of prematurely renewing Pagans contract last year?

Sure conduct a review, personally I would be pleased if Pagan was replaced, but ONLY if the review is comprehensive and wide searching. If that means Barry Mitchell ends up being assessed as the best person for the job all good and well. But if it's just a Mickey Mouse, smoke and mirrors review so this board can continue their tenure and in the process continue devaluing my club, then its a wasted exercise. And my suspicions are that the latter is the case.

Good post MM.

To quote Green Day - wake me up when September ends.

molsey · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:35 am

Directors may make decisions for the preservation of their careers that will affect the Club. That's a given. I dont think the payday other othan personal esteem is anything noteworthy, and hey, even the esteem is dying now. They're only human. What positives are there that they can hang their hat on as Directors? Greg Lee has the Foundation thingy, Smorgan will claim the AFL payments and State PP thingy as his...but the rest... what do they have to hang their hats on?

I think you have to accept Directors acting on their own behalf / benefit as just a potential fact of life.

Simple facts are:

* 2 wooden spoons since his contract re-extension
* 2 full years of draft access
* Fewer wins this year, low percentage, a clear bottom team - this year along with the Bombers - some 14 Premiership points behind 14th
* 3 years of pre-season draft access delivering Betts, McLaren, Stevens
* 4 late draft pick trades that have not worked out (At least they're not early picks this year)
* All despite minimal injuries when the season was on
* Members voting with their feet by 5000 not signing up

If now isn't the time to act... when is? We have the downside of Pagan or an alternate regardless of which steps we take. Some say Carlton cant afford to act but I feel as though we cant afford not to act.

As an aside, does anyone think pagan's lack of a public plan or commitment is fuelling the frustration? We have no insight as to what he was trying to do other than what we glean from the field, so we dont know if we think he's on track because we dont know where the track was going.

Noonamah Blue · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:38 am

fullmont101 wrote:

This shit needs to get sorted out very quickly, do not want this shit still going on around trade or worst, draft time. These next bunch of players dont need to bought into this sort of shit.

Very True, whichever way they decide they need to do it quickly so the club can concentrate on the draft and the preparation for 2007.

camel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:39 am

molsey wrote:

As an aside, does anyone think pagan's lack of a public plan or commitment is fuelling the frustration?

It's a selfish way to judge his ability no doubt, but it is one of the things that most disappoints me about Denis.

Molly · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:40 am

Quote:

Very True, whichever way they decide they need to do it quickly so the club can concentrate on the draft and the preparation for 2007.

Fully agree Noonamah. Problem is that I see Smorgon is in The Age saying there won't be a decision tonight. Well, we need a decision quick smart so that whoever is going to coach can start to structure the place for next year. And it needs to happen well before trade week (which is only one month away)

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18076

molsey wrote:

As an aside, does anyone think pagan's lack of a public plan or commitment is fuelling the frustration? We have no insight as to what he was trying to do other than what we glean from the field, so we dont know if we think he's on track because we dont know where the track was going.

I went to the coaches luncheon last week to gather all the inside goss.
Fascinating stuff!

Danny's still mulling over the significant insight as we speak!!!!! :wink:

BrianSetzer1 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:00 pm **Posts:** 807

Synbad, who will be the next person to bare the brunt of your brutality once Pagan is gone? Will we see a happy Synbad or is he just one of many?

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

Jarusa wrote:

If Mitchell is chosen I hope like hell we follow the 'Hawthorn 2005' model with a coach under instruction to play as many kids as possible and finish low on the ladder.

We need 4 wins or less next year.

The Hawthorn model was to have a review of the football department with some independant input and then appoint a coach with the instruction to play kids no matter what the cost. The Carlton model is like it's gameplan, it changes from quarter to quarter.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:49 am

YEP I think Denis's scorn of the media and refusal to say anything (take that luncheon, no please, take that luncheon) frustrates the crap out of everybody.

well if this is going to happen then it better happen quick!

On Sticks - I think me has a shocking record since having retired. He is like Tony Curtis in the pie fight scene from The Great Race. We need Natalie Woods to lay one on him - oh yeah baby!

kingkerna · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:11 am

I agree with everyone that the sooner this is sorted the better. Two quick points though, Wes Lofts' comments were disgusting & Caroline Wilson's article was not based on fact, she implies that Sticks orchestrated the salary cap cheating???? From memory when he first joined the board he wasn't the director of football, I am also pretty sure that the major decisions don't just go down to one person - despite Caro's desire to hang sticks for some reason.

nightcrawler · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48 am **Posts:** 2891

kingkerna wrote:

I agree with everyone that the sooner this is sorted the better. Two quick points though, Wes Lofts' comments were disgusting & Caroline Wilson's article was not based on fact, she implies that Sticks orchestrated the salary cap cheating???? From memory when he first joined the board he wasn't the director of football, I am also pretty sure that the major decisions don't just go down to one person - despite Caro's desire to hang sticks for some reason.

The sentiments were correct though. Sticks has had his hands in everything for the last 5 years and nobody ever points their finger at him. Maybe he should sack himself.

bluehammer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:36 am

Sticks throws his weight behind the cause of the day, to the public at least he swings more than a married couple in rural texas.

Coaching Axe Looms for Denis Pagan

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