Libba was on SEN at seasons end hanging it on him & Pagan was telling us he'd had enough at about round 15. Deny it all you like, but we stuffed the whole thing up.

I would have loved to trade all those guys but other Clubs aren't stupid. No wants our lazy, overpaid old hacks. Our only real trade bait was Whitnall and no one offered us anything for a KPP who can't hold down CHF, plays a good Jason Cloke role as loose man in defence and doesn't present himself in the best possible shape.

No one wanted Lappin and no one other than Essendon* wanted to pay Campio $300k per season.

It's easy to talk - yes I'm disspaointed - but that's the state of our list at the minute - pure shite.

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Go Blues

As long as Collo the bean counter [not really a bonafide leader] is at the helm, it will be the same ol same ol. He is a beancounter and therefore reactive. You need someone at the helm with nouse and Collo is not this fellow imo.

The point is, we should be in a position to be even more positive about the "refreshing" of our list.

Trading for the sake of trading is clearly not the answer but the club should have been out there and should have done more with the position we were in ... simple as that.

Top 30 picks should have been stock piled to increase our chances of bringing in multiple quality faces into the club, who can grow together and develop a sense of pride and purpose, which oozes from the kids at St Kilda, Geelong, Bulldogs ... and will soon from the Hawks and Tigers.

We finished bottom, the club has admitted we are following a youth policy of recruitment and are clearly in a rebuilding phase. Heaven and earth should have been moved to clear out more of the playing list and get those picks. The 3 quality picks we have this year are not going to be anywhere near as effective as the amount of picks the Hawks will have ... simply due to the probability of the kids you pick going on and having a successful career.

We are treading water with a completely (and here's that word again) reactive football department and board. The reputation Carlton has at the moment is very indicative of where we are. If this was strictly a business entity (and the emotion of sport wasn't involved), this club would have been left in the past a long time ago. No direction, no urgency, no initiative anywhere.

This is the exact atttiude of the club it seems, and is an absolute cop out. Sheedy does it every year. Clarkson did it this year. Don't give me the lazy "noone wants to give us picks for what we have". The football club should hire someone like Waldron who DID and WOULD make those deals go through.

what deals did waldron "make go thru"?. Barry Hall and Everitt were both great players in their prime. Yes, it was a smart play trading both those guys. But we do not have any of those.

By the way, Waldron is no genius, he has to watch NRL every week.

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Go Blues

How are you going to make these deals go through short of holding a gun to someone's head?

The Saints have traded well, but they didn't give up shit to get decent players to the club, they traded high picks or their own decent players.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

The fact is you could have traded Whitnall but chose not to for whatever reason. MFC would have dealed fair and square, we have a record and reputation for it and we were very keen to get Lance.

I think the point is that having the no. 1 pick in the PSD is a great thing to have when lining up trades in trade week. We failed in using this advantage by spending the week dealing with our own players. If the club wanted to keep whitnal he should have been signed up prior to trade week, and if the club weren't going to come to terms with campo he should have been floated in the media the week before. The week should have been spent targeting a ready made quality player that could bolster our developing kids

@#$%&! what Walrus thinks!! His old club managed to land one or two players using the threat of pick 1 because it was at a time when the AFL had negotiated a juicy TV rights deal and the AFLPA had negotiated decent % increases, and players were hungry. They threw a bit of coin around and did well. Fast forward 5 years and the landscape has changed somewhat. We threw money at a player who could be the best CHF in the land but he chose to get half of what he's worth and live in the shadows of Reiwoldt. We tried for Power as well but the spectre of J.Brown and his loyalty loomed at Brisbane. Who else is there? Bartel? Yeah he is very handy but worth no more than $300K a year. Anymore than that is silly and being a born and bred Geelong boy it was always going to be hard. Besides he hasn't signed yet.

But one thing I am happy the club didn't do is throw around ludicrous amounts of money to try and get players on more then they are worth. We are suffering from this type of behaviour already, so why would we engage in it again? Kosi fair enough, Power as well, but who else? We are still limited somewhat in out TPP (even without Campo) and simply shouldn't throw silly amounts of money at players. And at the end of the day we still have picks 1, 4 & 20.
PSD 1 can still be anything with a lot of players still unsigned. Who's to say the club aren't busy behind the scenes.

@#$%&! what Brian thinks? For all the aints picks and trades they still have essentially achieved exactly what we have in the same period of time - one Wizzer each! Yeah but the aints are the greatest club in the land!!! Give me a break Brian you knobhead. They've only just managed to clock the same amount of finals wins as we have premierships. And that's in over 100 years!!!

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C'mon Blueboys!

old55 not wanting to critise you because you're right Melb wanted lance and yes we could of handed him to you. But if and its a big IF, we believe the rumours the Dees were only prepared to give up pick 12 plus a player. No cert that that player was Green or for that matter a player that we need or would fit into our future.

I'll give you a hypothetical , Would you accept pick 12 plus a player lets say Sporn or Davies for Johnstone. Of course you wouldn't then again i know what you're thinking , so how about a player like Miller, or even Bruce.

A lot of stuff is talked about at trade time but most of it is rubbish, good old fashion trash talk. If Melbourne really really wanted Lance they could of had him. But what its ok to say carlton are stupid and doing the wrong thing ( not that you've said this ) rather than giving Melbourne credit for not letting this deal go through at there expense.

Seriously give your club some credit for not being suckered into a deal and our club some credit for not caving into one.

next year who knows cause next year pick 12 is more like a top 5 pick this year going on all reports.

Old55 you can have Lance next year and we'll take 12 and a player.

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

Did Melbourne actually put a deal to us that we knocked back?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

No I wouldn't do those trades because MFC is in an entirely different stage of the cycle from Carlton. We are trying to import seasoned players to win a flag not get rid of them, you are just starting a rebuilding phase and could do with the picks.

MFC would have dealt fair market value for Lance but did not get the opportunity because Carlton maintained that Lance is a required player. We made Lance a fair offer over and above your offer, if you wanted to trade him you could have.

It is true to say that you took a conservative line, no-one wanted to trade for Fev, Campo or Lappin and you would not trade Lance. This may or may not have been the right line. History will tell.

BTW it'll be pick 19 next year

When St Kilda traded Barry Hall in 2001 they still had experienced players like Everitt, Gehrig, Hammill, Harvey, Burke & Aussie Jones to keep the club competitive and help develop the youngsters.

In 2002 when they traded Everitt they had Riewoldt and Koschitzke both coming through the ranks and making a big name for themselves as well as the above listed core group of senior players.

Now, could somebody please tell me who would Carlton have to keep the club competitive for the next couple of years and help develop the younger players if we traded Lance?

Stevens, Fev and um........

You better ask Alistair Clarkson that.

We're gonna see which model is correct.

Hawthorn have traded much more aggressively with Thompson and Hay and drafted talls.

Richmond drafted quicker fix smalls and now Miller says they will be competitive in 2007.

Carlton have hung onto Lance.

Correct and we really don't know how good And Um.... Is

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

Hawthorn still have more quality established players than Carlton which allowed them to trade Hay i.e Everitt, Hodge, Mitchell, Crawford, Vandenberg, Williams, Jacobs etc.

Carlton has Jack S*#!

Comparing what we did this trade period to the Saints efforts in their rebulding phase is pointless. This is a completely different era. The AFL is evolving all the time especially in the area of trading and list management. Clubs are much smarter now about who they let go so the opportunities are less. Ron Joseph had a lot to do with the Saints rebuild putting the package of Hammill Capuano and Gehrig together for the Saints. Also the Blight halo was on the club and it was easier to attract these players. The Saints had been given lots of draft pick pipe line to work with which effectively told the stars being recruited that there was hope for the future especially with Blight the new coach. The Saints were seen as having a bit of "blue sky".
Carlton in todays era is seen as non progressive as well as having been hampered by the draft pick penalties. This image needs to change. We wont turn this ship around any time soon the way we are travelling- a culture change has slipped into the club and needs to be given the arse ASAP.

Brian Waldren said what ?
Who the eff is Brian Waldren and whats his claim to fame ?
Ditched the Saints coz he didnt want to answer the hard questions,LIKE,what went wrong Brian ? Why isnt it happening Brian ?
Runaway Sue ! Cant believe you guys got sucked in by this non entity.

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All my dangerous friends

It's called being aggressive. What you do is throw $2.1 million for three years at Kossie or $1.4 million for two years, he isn't going to sign midseason if that sort of money is being thrown at him, this is probably double what he accepted at St Kilda. His manager wouldn't let him commit to St Kilda so early if this was the case, he would be being negligent in his role as manager. We then say to St Kilda, we will give you pick 20 for him or we will just take him in the PSD for free - Take it or leave it.

In the mean time we have Fatnall, we accept pick 12 for him from Melbourne.

So we have offloaded the lards salary at say $400k per year and have picked up Kossie at $700k a year. So for the sake of $300k we have a much younger, better player. But instead this administration probably offered kossie $400k per season and expected him to come across - morons. This club is going no where.

Carlton God
The original and still the best