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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:37 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:43 pm
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2ndeffort wrote:
Is it too early to tank?


It's never too early, can only be loo late :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:45 am 
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John Nicholls

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We looked our best against the tigers when Henda was getting them lead up marks just between halfway and the arc. Once the tigers shut that down we were stuffed.

Casboult might give us more of a presence in the forward line which might give the team a little lift but he is not the way forward longterm. Cant kick.

Smith, Jaksch and Dalesy out.

In Buckley, and whoever is strong and can run out four quarters. Dennis might give us some energy (also not the way forward).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:56 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
Hibbo wrote:
I thought Jones done more fwd than Hendo vs Tigers.

I think Hendo needs to go back. I think he plays better there and I think he's more comfortable there.
Play Rowe fwd. And if our game plan is to bomb it then Casboult needs to play. Let Jones play as a third tall like Mick & Wiley said all preseason.



Did you? Do you also see Hendo chasing Smiths man downfield several times while Smith trailed 20 metres behind?
Or wasn't that in the TV screen? Its not a criticism of Smith, he's just not fit enough.
Liam Jones needs to understand his responsibilities don't only apply when the ball is within 5 metres.

Our problem is forward pressure. We can't win enough one on one contests up forward which enables our opposition to zone off. Too often players like Houli and Batchelor were running offensively before the Tiges had even won the ball. 31 uncontested possessions between 2 defenders!
People on this site talk about cheating players. Richmond cheat infinitely more than our players. We're just good enough to punish them for it.
The outcome is Houli, Batchelor, Hunt and co run the ball up the ground with no pressure and hit up their forwards with ease.
Yet you and others are advocating we send into defence the only forward we played who could win a one on one or chased to apply pressure. :?


:clap: thank goodness your around BV. Balance and logic are needed here sometimes.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:03 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Interesting you say that the Tiger players cheated a lot more than us BV because, watching on TV, they looked to be playing just like we were a few years ago.

My only hope is that, even though they beat us, we are further along the road to redemption than the Tigers.

And you are spot on about Henderson. Our best big man by a long way and was killing them when the whole team was having a crack.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:09 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Out:
Wood
Smith
Thomas
Tuohy

In:
Warnock
Tutt
Boekhorst
Buckley

Wood was soundly beaten last night, and NicNat will jump all over him next week. I know Warnock gives us bugger all around the ground, but I think we need him or we'll get ragdolled in the middle next week.
Smith is young and learning, but Tutt gives us more speed, better fitness and more experience in the same role.
Thomas is obviously injured and can be replaced by Borkhorst, who'll again add speed and outside run.
Lastly Tuohy.. Unlucky. He wasn't terrible last night, but by the same token he hasn't had a really good game since 2013. Buckley gives us more speed and aggressiveness.

*Normally I'd probably leave Tuohy in and drop White, but I can't see a way to justify it after White played pretty well last night.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:50 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
Hibbo wrote:
I thought Jones done more fwd than Hendo vs Tigers.

I think Hendo needs to go back. I think he plays better there and I think he's more comfortable there.
Play Rowe fwd. And if our game plan is to bomb it then Casboult needs to play. Let Jones play as a third tall like Mick & Wiley said all preseason.



Did you? Do you also see Hendo chasing Smiths man downfield several times while Smith trailed 20 metres behind?
Or wasn't that in the TV screen? Its not a criticism of Smith, he's just not fit enough.
Liam Jones needs to understand his responsibilities don't only apply when the ball is within 5 metres.

Our problem is forward pressure. We can't win enough one on one contests up forward which enables our opposition to zone off. Too often players like Houli and Batchelor were running offensively before the Tiges had even won the ball. 31 uncontested possessions between 2 defenders!
People on this site talk about cheating players. Richmond cheat infinitely more than our players. We're just good enough to punish them for it.
The outcome is Houli, Batchelor, Hunt and co run the ball up the ground with no pressure and hit up their forwards with ease.
Yet you and others are advocating we send into defence the only forward we played who could win a one on one or chased to apply pressure. :?

BV while you're bang on about the lack of effort by some at forward pressure acts, you're also overlooking that some of the forwards need to be ahead of the play.

Hendo did not win his share of 50-50s on the night; 0 marks inside 50, 1 contested mark. Yes the pressure acts were nice but he kicked 2 points and had one goal assist for the evening. I honestly think he's getting in the way right now because if he was close to an elite forward he'd have 3 goals to go with 6 marks and those blokes out of breath would be front and square with less miles in the legs because they know exactly how he'll look to bring the ball down.

We don't have that level of organisation in the forward unit and he's supposed to be the leader of it. He can @#$%&! off and go somewhere his attributes are weapons instead of hindrances that engender our entire midfield unit to push too far up the ground so when we do turn it over, Richmond only have to nail a simple 40 m pass to have a free run at their own 50.

That he and the forward unit don't have the confidence of the midfield enough to prevent them all rushing forward to provide link up options without much purpose or team play hurts our ability to shut down Richmond's rebound. So is it the forward structure in personnel, tactics, the confidence in it from midfield or the support offered from midfield?

I think it's a little bit of everything, but when your supposedly best forward gets spoiled so easily it's hard to sit back and do nothing as all your I50s count for nothing.

Here's are the statistical truths of last night:
- Our traditional prime movers spent the least amount of time on ground
- No one took more than one mark inside 50 or one contested mark for CFC all night
- We won the time in possession battle comfortably (55% to 45%) but lost total possessions by 30 (the gap was as much as 40-50 at points)
- We only lost the I50 count 46-54
- Almost all of Richmond's extra disposals came from uncontested ball wins
- Richmond only had one more mark I50 (12-11), but importantly won the constested mark count 13-7; their mark I50 count was also concentrated around key targets, while we had no players with more than 1 for the whole match

So the supply dried up and got patchy but we didn't have a consistent target who was taking grabs. Hendo was the focal point yet was neither marking in the clinches or providing ground ball for others; in fact, they were providing ground balls for him.

He doesn't have a @#$%&! clue what he's doing at the moment and that's on him and the coaches. Does the defensive basics right but if he took the aerial load his mates would help with forward pressure just fine by virtue of being at the fall of the ball more regularly and having more gas in the tank.


cimm1979 wrote:
If the rest of the team had worked as hard as Henderson did last night we would have won.

I suppose kicking 14.22 would have been a winning score.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:04 am 
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Ken Hunter

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cimm1979 wrote:
Interesting you say that the Tiger players cheated a lot more than us BV because, watching on TV, they looked to be playing just like we were a few years ago.

My only hope is that, even though they beat us, we are further along the road to redemption than the Tigers.

And you are spot on about Henderson. Our best big man by a long way and was killing them when the whole team was having a crack.


..both teams cheated plenty last night, front running show ponies all over the park..

....big Hendo fan, will carve it up for us at chf for years to come.. ....but he is an old school type and he will push downfield a lot.. ..the other key forward needs to get on his bike more otherwise there is a hole left behind in hendo's wake.. ..jones needs to run double what he did last night, as a minimum.. ....I think I'd consider keeping Jones as a harder working but still deeper forward, and bring in watto to work as a tandem high hf marking target and link player with hendo.. ..watto will run and present all game too, and is a threat from 55 out..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:08 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..when you waste a couple of years developing your chf at chb, you need to wait some for them to redevelop up forward.. ..same reason why Gibbs still has to settle in the middle, too long developed in a different role.. ..ppl don't seem grasp this..,..they expect to just switch players's roles and expect them to be just as good as they have been in the last three years playing and learning a different role..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:23 am 
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formerly BlueRob
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Rexy wrote:
Casboult can't kick, therefore shouldn't play



Jones can't mark ... therefore should not play.
Madhouse can't coach ... therefore should not coach.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:38 am 
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Bruce Doull
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If you know roughly where your team mates want to kick it and want you to have it kicked, you can make later runs at the ball and manipulate a lax part of the oppositions zone set up.

Hendo may not ascribe to this theory, or strongly believes he should be the step ladder for Jones and opposition defenders in the packs.

Maybe we can give him a participation medal for being first to the ball every time?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..I think it's the other way around, our team has been kicking to a dysfunctional forward line for so long that the deliveries into the F50 are just as dysfunctional.. ....it's as if we choose to ignore the half forward arc..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Hendo did make a couple of crucial errors last night but he was the only tall forward to chase.
Jones didn't leave the 50. He doesn't chase with purpose and let his man go a number of times.
KJ was kneed in the ribs in the second quarter and struggled to fun after that. Doesn't have a tank.
Rowe was knackered by the time he got to rest forward.
Selection was wrong.
KJ getting beaten by Griffith upset the plan.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:13 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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cimm1979 wrote:
when the whole team was having a crack.


This is why we lost last night. We gave up and stopped having a crack once the lead became comfortable.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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choo wrote:
...struggled to fun...


Pretty much sums up football for me these days.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Wood will be beaten every Week. This guy was drafted into the Club as a Rookie, a Recycled hack who was proven not be an AFL player. He was brought into the Club as a plan C, in the extreme circumstance that All our Ruck divisions Go down.

Yet here we are... in 2015, he is now our No.1 Ruck-man.... This is how sad this club of ours has become!!

Jones can kick his 2 goals a game if he likes but he will always be a liability and defenders will give him his two goals on a plate as long as they know he will only get 2 disposals from them and all he will do is just Crush packs with no impact.

Yarran must be played as a permanent forward, no matter what happens down back. It is the only way we are going to kick some Goals and have a Crumbing forward which we so badly lacked yesterday.

Clem Smith- How did he even get into the Side? he is not an AFL material as yet... he is not ready.... I don't want to see him back until he completes his learning trade in the VFL


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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To be fair Warnock didn't play today in the VFL so he's obviously injured alongside Kreuzer, but is he really plan B?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
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cecil89 wrote:
Out:
Wood
Smith
Thomas
Tuohy

In:
Warnock
Tutt
Boekhorst
Buckley

Wood was soundly beaten last night, and NicNat will jump all over him next week. I know Warnock gives us bugger all around the ground, but I think we need him or we'll get ragdolled in the middle next week.
Smith is young and learning, but Tutt gives us more speed, better fitness and more experience in the same role.
Thomas is obviously injured and can be replaced by Borkhorst, who'll again add speed and outside run.
Lastly Tuohy.. Unlucky. He wasn't terrible last night, but by the same token he hasn't had a really good game since 2013. Buckley gives us more speed and aggressiveness.

*Normally I'd probably leave Tuohy in and drop White, but I can't see a way to justify it after White played pretty well last night.


from reserves performances today boekhorst no good, warnock did not play, tutt yes and buckley maybe. whiley also pretty good for first up game.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:42 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Hornet wrote:
Melbourne Victory v Newcastle Jets @ AAMI Park 7:40pm


That's where I'll be...


Same here. Watching a team who is run professionally and are going places.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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choo wrote:
KJ was kneed in the ribs in the second quarter and struggled to fun after that. Doesn't have a tank.




wow is he ok?


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