the leadership continuity was severed in ~ 2004/05

A leadership culture amongst the players that spanned from the days of Barrassi and Harris.

We ask why we cant string more than 4 wins together, why we cant beat the hawks, why we are pushed around on the field and rarely do anything about it (happened last night again), why we seem to hover above a putrid lake of mediocrity and never dare venture out into the open seas where the swell may threaten out little world of toys and simplicity....who have we become? what do we stand for now? How do we get ourselves out of this abyss of self deception and denial?

The seasons roll on one after the other and we continue to ask the same questions...

I wonder if the players have?

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

But football clubs are brands, to some extent.

Go into the Carlton shop and tell me branding isn't a major element, certainly it is in terms of attracting supporters are grass roots levels and entrenching in their psyche all things Carlton.

When I was a kid I would spend hours drawing the CFC logo, and my 11 year old daughter does the same these days.

Anyhow, my point was two fold, that the club is to some degree a brand (and elements of such are what osified my attachment to the club at a young age), and in recent times the club (or bran,d depending on how much you see the club as being a brand) has lost is quality.

Agreed though the club should rely less on the brand elements. The soul has been lost

Again I stress it is not wholly about winning games, it is about being a professionally run orgn (with a soul) that gives the players the best chance of winning games, that is all we ask for. With regards to the 49ers, they appear to be a very well run orgn of late - good coach, good GM, tactically astute recruiting - they have been well run and this gives the team a chance of achieving success. They have made the last 4 3 years running but not had success at the Bowl. They may not have that success, but at least they have given themselves every chance of success and as a fan I am attracted to that. I won't jump off them if they don;t win the Bowl, but if they start running the franchise into the ground for a decade plus I will start to become disenfranchised.

You say the club want success, and have made mistakes. Agreed completely with these comments. By point is at some stage the current board/admin need to be accountable for these mistakes, like in any orgn.

I’ve also often wondered why St.Kilda and Footscray fans stayed so loyal to their clubs for so long, especially when I was a kid when these two clubs inevitably finished down the bottom each year. Again I’d argue there is a sense of brand ‘identity’ at play here.

I suppose St.Kilda have always been a ‘popular’ club to follow, I guess this partially stems from the notorious locale from which the suburb is based, and also the fact some famous people support the club (Warnie, Molly, Eric Banna) … and I suppose Footscray have always had a strong western suburbs/working class identity.

(Carlton’s culture back then was ‘we buy premierships’, ‘we expect premierships’, and ‘we don’t mind being arrogant’. Maybe throw in a bit of the European (Italian) culture).

I also suspect that back in the day before equalization these clubs really had little chance of lifting themselves off the canvas, and in a strange way this probably lent itself to fans developing a stoic type of loyalty to these clubs.

These days however, these clubs are trying hard to be modern and have up-to-date game plans (granted this is often times follow-the-leader) and recruit well from the draft to give themselves the best chance possible of being successful in the next 3-5 years. Granted St.K probably stuck with the old guard a bit too long at the expense of regenerating their list, but they have turned the list over recently and right now seem to have a really strong playing culture with great showings so far in 2014. The Doggies on the other hand have stocked up well with good kids via the draft and appear set to re-launch an assault on the competition.

These clubs seem to be getting with the program.

Carlton are the arrogant/success demanding brand, who in the last decade have been deplorably run off the field, and maybe have fallen for the old trick of appointing an old coach twice, which would be remarkably stupid in hindsight (and yes I remember I backed Mick in – and still do so long as he shows he is smart enough and big enough to acknowledge his game plan is antiquated).
The funny thing is St.Kilda and Footscray’s brand attributes still remain, and are not detrimental to their current existence. I’m not sure I can say the same about Carlton’s identity. Arrogance doesn’t sit too well with repeated ineptitude and failure.

When you have no expectations it's easy to be satisfied. The Saints just beat Melbourne and GWS and their start has been deemed a success. Footscray fans have never seen their team in a GF, being competitive and "working class" largely satisfies their realistic desires.

Then we have Carlton, the former CEO who was disgraced and moved back to the factory floor. Don't be surprised when he doesn't like his new circumstances.

We have greater ability than many others to move back up the company ladder, but can we swallow our pride and put in the work? Not likely.

We shouldn't be compared with what used to be "lesser" clubs, as we've come from vastly different backgrounds, therefore our attitude to current circumstances differs wildly.

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Audere est Facere

re supporting crap clubs
in the old days there was a sense of community about your footy club
suburban grounds
social clubs
training
banter at the grounds
so even if your club was crap there was still something in it for the supporter
youd stand in the outer with your mates and you can have a bit of a laugh... sometimes your team would win .. often it would lose... but thats what u expected.
you always knew if you were a stkilda supporter Perovic would leave and go to Carlton
Spyder to the swans
Hall to the swans
russell greene to hawthorn
ian stewart to richmond
Lockett to swans
joel smith to hawthorn

etc

they knew that...!!!.. they didnt get their excitement on the field usually... they got it off field
the club social
the networking of mates at the ground ... when u could stand with whoever you like and have a beer and a laugh
the animal enclosure

you cant even do that now.

its just a drab game.... its a drab experience

whats stkildas membership like?

nobody has any reason to follow losers anymore....
so many other options available

sunday night at the footy? no @#$%&! way!!!!.. not for me....

theyre not going to take away my experience and force me to go to the footy when they want me to go....

they did pull crowds at

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

my point is..... the club needs to work harder to connect with the fans.. not work less and turn it into a mediocre club and a mediocre experience
already its not the gae it used to be... its not the experience it used to be.... and most of all my club is no longer the club it used to be....

why does sticks think i need to join up???

rib tickler Sticks!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Many people discuss the loss of culture and refer to the suburban grounds, the social clubs, the beers in the stand etc. and that's how I love my footy too. That's why I love local footy. But at the professional level things have changed. Clubs have a new culture now. The culture isn't linked to the suburban location, the culture is driven from something completely different. Port Adelaide has marketed heavily on their never give up attitude, north melbourne use the shinboner angle, Sydney used the bloods brand, Richmond talks up their tiger army and almost lauds its fans for being the loudest and proudest in the league despite their many years of mediocrity on the field. Essendon* has even developed an us v them, stand by Hird kind of campaign to attract members. Geelong and Hawthorn provide on field excellence.

What is our unique cultural identity? We don't have one from what I can see. Arrogance? Hardly! I don't see arrogance. I see a club constantly chasing its tail, and it knows it. We don't have on field success and we don't have anything unique separating us from the field off the ground, not even in our 150th year.

The changing culture of professional football has no doubt led to some supporters losing interest. That's a sad by-product of increasing professionalism and the loss of those members is disappointing, but what is the club doing to attract new members and grow the club despite those membership losses. The on field product isn't going to do it. Do we market better than the other leading clubs? Are we ahead in our utilisation of social media? Do we offer a unique and rewarding membership experience? Are we connecting with grassroots footy and promoting ourselves to a broader audience across the nation?

I can't answer yes to any of the above. The only box I have ever been able to tick in my time supporting the club is onfield performance in a couple of rare instances.

Will things change? Can we change personnel and board members and as a result develop a new culture that people can identify with? Given the many years of struggle we've endured it's hard to see. Even if it does happen (and I think it will, eventually) will the supporters embrace it, or has this lengthy period of disenchantment led to a lost supporter base that may never re-engage with the club again? At best we're at the tipping point right now, hopefully we haven't quite begun tipping already.

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@cecil_anderson

The club would have done some qual research, I imagine, but sadly the best output of that research was I AM CARLTON

A hotch podge of personalities and experiences. Appeal to all angles, leveraging our history.

Not sure it is a focussed, unique marketing positioning.

The ad gave me goosebumps but had no lasting, resonating meaning

Of course I am not being paid to do the club's research.

You know the funny thing is, for me personally when I think of those old day experiences, I keep coming back to the same variable ... games played at Princes Park

Did we lose our soul when we left our home?

What are our greatest moments in the last 15-20 years?

Bradles goal against WC at PP
Kouta's remarkable game vs Syd at PP
Even Minton-Connell's goal to give us that unexpected win I think vs WC at PP
Going back a bit further when the mosquito fleet used to bang goals into the virtually collapsing sea of blue in the Robert Heatly stand
Or Bosustow's mark in the goal square against Geel at PP (yes I was behind the goals as a kid)
SOS being KOd by that Geelong turd and the fans nearly jumping over the fence in response
The list goes on ...

yes we lost our soul when we left
because we allowed it to get taken

its not the ground .. its the experience
the club never understood how to improve in this new world of footy
it didnt get that in order to be a club u must be inclusive as best u can
it didnt work on any real initiatives to give us something
the players dont like having anything to do with supporters
they dont like signing autographs
they dont like going to schools or commitments
its all tiresome for them
they dont believe they should be ambassadors for the club
there is no pride ... its just a work environment for them
footy is not a bank
it needs emotion and spirit

this club never worked on anything to tap into peoples emotions.. the custodians of this football club just expected us to keep buying memberships and shutting up
they pampered to the corporates and the portrait
they forgot about us

the oligarchy doesnt understand us....
their raffles are expensive
their anniversaries are priced as extravaganzas ... not that they will deliver that kind of experience.. everything is half cooked...
were forgtten about
past players and prsonalities are forgotten about.. except of course if they know u personally .
without success there is nothing left for the average supporter

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Kade Simpson's on–field successor was playing last Saturday.

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Bawditawaba